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Do you have a physical limit in cycling?
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I was looking back through multiple years of TP cycling data and I seem to hit a “ceiling” on 5,20 and 60 min power no matter which year I’m looking at / how many hours a week I’m training

Example: I seem to ramp up towards 380ish w for 5 mins (~5w/kg), slowly creep up towards 390 and never seem to gain much from there. I’ve been in this range ~10 times over the years but never really raised the bar.

Other metrics are similar. 60 min had always peaked close to 300ish, maybe 310, but never broken through and created a new “plateau” so to speak

So - do we each have a physical limit/ceiling and I’m just approaching mine?
Last edited by: mvenneta: Nov 10, 18 8:14
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Re: Do you have a physical limit in cycling? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, but.

Yes there are natural physical and technical limits to anyone's ability in cycling, but it takes years of multifaceted training to get there. Just because a rider has done years of 2x 20's and hasn't progressed any further doesn't mean they've hit their limit, just the limit of that technique to going faster.

At 33, I was fairly confident I had reached my limit on the bike. I raced competitively for a decade, trained 10-15 hours a week for many years with a coach and without, focused on different efforts, and usually saw the same maximum power numbers and results on the bike. One thing that did change was the ease I would return to peak condition and the frequency that it would turn into a race result, but there was always a limit to what the Garmin would say and there were always races I would be in over my head.
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Re: Do you have a physical limit in cycling? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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Short answer: yes we do.

If you are approaching yours ?
Difficult to answer. So many factors involved. How old are you ?
For us workers, parents, pupils, etc...motivation and energy left to train and race will define our limits. Plus genetic factors.
For example: If you won the lottery and would find yourself without having to work 40 hrs/week anymore, that would have probably more effect on your ceiling (leaving your more time, freedom, energy left, less financial stress, etc...), than changes in your monthly plans...but, maybe not either...

Louis :)
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Re: Do you have a physical limit in cycling? [louisn] [ In reply to ]
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Good point. Maybe the consideration is , given the time I have available to train, do I have a limit? Or can it continue to raise w more structured training ? If so, let’s talk tricks!

What I’ve found is my peaks used to be on 12-15 hours / week, and I’m hitting those same limits now on 6-7 hours / week ..
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Re: Do you have a physical limit in cycling? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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mvenneta wrote:
Example: I seem to ramp up towards 380ish w for 5 mins (~5w/kg), slowly creep up towards 390

How tall are you?

Maybe go after the kg's instead of the watts for a while.

If you're tall, 76 ain't bad at all. Pretty good. But my riding when I went from about 76ish to 69kg........oh man the acceleration and climbing difference.
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Re: Do you have a physical limit in cycling? [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I’m 6’2

I’ve been around 168-170lbs for a long time now

During race season I may drop 3-4lbs but not interested in keeping that up or going deeper
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Re: Do you have a physical limit in cycling? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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My numbers are a little under yours (286W PB FTP) and 378W 5'power at 165 lbs.
I raised my FTP by approx. 5-7% the last 3 years (I'm close to 52 yrs old), my latest goals being 20 km time trials and eventually building towards olympic distance triathlon.
But at the same time can't reach the numbers I did for shorter intervals.
I could easily follow the cat.1-2 guys on local crits a few years back, but now the I lack the peak power to get a fast start, I have to settle for the main pack.... :/
It totally makes sense according to the specificity physiology principles....
I still think I improve every year, my main goal is to reach a ''dream FTP'' of 300W.
Now strategy to have better numbers are numerous. Here's what I tried:
-Lower body weight. I tried to get my body weight to 160 lbs for my 50th birthday, by changing a few things in my daily nutritional habits. It turned out I didn't improve any of my cycling performances, not even the few climbing segments around my place.
- Change training routine. The more I learned about myself ( I started riding seriously at 40), the more I improved the quality training and cut on volume, cutting the total by half. Personally, I found my sweet spot is around 7-13 hrs/week depending on the period. I changed coach and approach, and am open to try lots of new stuff. Being motivated for the hard workouts is a big part of the game in my case.
- Recuperation: I find it difficult to ''take care of myself'' after the workouts, especially the hard ones. But I know should: Massages, physio, stretching helps the body to recuperate better. My best periods are the ones where I've been disciplined about every aspect of the training, especially recuperation.
- Nutrition and supplements: Personally, since I turned 50, I take D vitamins (living pretty close to the north pole the sun exposure is low in winter ;-) ) and Omega-3 supplies. Don't know if it's the pills, or just age, but I lowered my HR at the same power outputs, and am able to push for longer times at the same HR than I was 2 years ago...
-....

Louis :)
Last edited by: louisn: Nov 10, 18 10:07
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Re: Do you have a physical limit in cycling? [louisn] [ In reply to ]
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I’m debating doing a structured plan and seeing if that gives me any benefit. Will start after thanksgiving

I have so much fun zwift racing 3x / week, giving that up is the hardest part
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Re: Do you have a physical limit in cycling? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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mvenneta wrote:
I’m debating doing a structured plan and seeing if that gives me any benefit. Will start after thanksgiving

I have so much fun zwift racing 3x / week, giving that up is the hardest part

Why can't you zwift race as part of a training plan?
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Re: Do you have a physical limit in cycling? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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Take a look at the link below. This general approach helped me add close to 10% to my FTP from where I was stuck at for several years.

http://www.hunterallenpowerblog.com/2010/12/next-level.html


In my experience, there is nothing more effective than doing 3 long rides per month for a couple months. 5+ hours on Saturday AM with normalized power @ low tempo range, include 90+ minutes of threshold or higher. It's mentally/physically exhausting, but I'll do it by including a group ride as part of the ride (ride to and from the group ride). The long rides are required. The same volume/intensity on multiple days just doesn't work for me.


During the week, 2 additional hard days that each include 45+ minutes of threshold or higher work (Tues/Thurs). Zwift Races are an entertaining way to get this work in and normalized power for a race is always mid-high threshold range for me with lots to V02 and higher mixed in. I make one of these days a 3 hour ride (group ride for part of it) when possible with normalized power @ mid-high tempo. Rest or easy rides on M/W/F/Sun. Weights and cross training on Sunday.

This formula builds FTP for me. I'm sure it would be even better if I followed the more regimented program, but I enjoy it when I can mix in group rides and Zwift races, even if they aren't optimizing my results. I'm not a world-beater, but I've gotten my FTP up around 310 using this approach and I never thought I'd be able to crack 300 after sitting at 280-285 for years. I think I've got 325+ in my legs If I got more disciplined in the training, but I'm 50 now and I'm sure time is going to start catching up at some point.


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Re: Do you have a physical limit in cycling? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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First comment is your numbers are pretty darn good, especially on a consistent basis over the years...but you still might be able to go faster (I was faster in my mid 50s on similar or slightly less power). Ideas include (nothing earth shattering here):

- fit on your bike. Are you as aero as you can be over 112 miles. Maybe your position gets tweaked for IM vs. sprint? Can you tweak to trade power vs aero at the margin and then optimize based on topography of the specific course? Subtle tweaks to your position? Wind tunnel to optimize?

- equipment: bike, helmet, wheels, tires, hydration, etc....nothing like spending $ vs hours if you have enough of the former....right crank length?

- pacing: how do your metrics hold up over the whole distance? Going too fast early? Too much power on hills, not enough on descents? Saving enough for the run? Too much?

- technique: are you super smooth (circles), right cadence? Can you really attack descents? Can you drink and eat and stay on power and aero? Do you take the right line? Do you maximize the benefits of legal drafting (use as much time as allowed in the draft zones on passing?). Right cadence? Did I mention cadence?

- training variation: key factor is to stress your body in ways it has to adapt to so you gain training benefit. Same training all the time leads to plateau because your bod adapts. Do you do super short very high output intervals? Do you ride for 3 hours easy and then do an hour ftp session? Do you do very low rpm strength training? Do you do specific functional gym/weight training (squats)?

- nutrition and hydration. This has always been a limiter for me. Can I eat and drink the right amount? How much is that (how do you know?). How does it vary with heat and humidity (and wind)

- motivation: are you always hungry to attack your training or do you get lags? Maybe mini breaks where you stay off the bike for 3-7 days to recharge?

- are you as sustainably lean as possible? Are you as flexible as necessary? Sleeping enough? Good mix between stress and recovery?

-volume: when in doubt, lace 3 350 Mile weeks together...

Also, don’t get old!

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: Do you have a physical limit in cycling? [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
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I've found racing on zwift pushes you a lot harder than doing any type of structured workouts. I've also found it wrecks anything else you may do for the rest of the next few days. As a triathlete, I had to give up racing on zwift because the swim and run was really starting to suffer. Pushing 400 watts for 5 minutes while trying to break away from a group when you know you can't beat the group in a sprint is a lot easier than holding 320 watts for 8x2. lol
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Re: Do you have a physical limit in cycling? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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Yes my fat gut....



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