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RunDNA from Toolbox Genomics
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What do you guys think of this product - https://www.toolboxgenomics.com/shop/rundna ? They were featured on the Flo cycling guys podcast recently. On the surface it seems like an interesting idea, but the fact that this analysis is based on essentially a collation of the published research results compiled by the company's research staff makes this a little bit more subjective IMO. Also the price point is pretty competitive vs 23andme.

Thoughts?

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: RunDNA from Toolbox Genomics [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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alex_korr wrote:
What do you guys think of this product - https://www.toolboxgenomics.com/shop/rundna ? They were featured on the Flo cycling guys podcast recently. On the surface it seems like an interesting idea, but the fact that this analysis is based on essentially a collation of the published research results compiled by the company's research staff makes this a little bit more subjective IMO. Also the price point is pretty competitive vs 23andme.

Thoughts?

I think I don't see any data to back up the claims on the website. I think that data might not exist. I think I might save my money.

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Life is tough. But it's tougher when you're stupid. -John Wayne
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Re: RunDNA from Toolbox Genomics [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Genomic analysis so far is a bust. This MAY change down the road, but as of now, we understand so little of most genetic contributions to complicated things like running such that it's a joke to say they can give you actionable recommendations that have a significant impact on your running.

It's no differen from a scam where I could say that I could analyze your breathing patterns at rest and at exercise, cite a bunch of scientific studies about breathing that probably are only remotely related to the issue we're dealing with, and then come up with some pseudosciency recommendations that are hard/impossible to disprove but aren't dangerous so you won't come sue me if they don't work. Then I'll charge you $200 for it, thank you very much.
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Re: RunDNA from Toolbox Genomics [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
It's no differen from a scam where I could say that I could analyze your breathing patterns at rest and at exercise, cite a bunch of scientific studies about breathing that probably are only remotely related to the issue we're dealing with, and then come up with some pseudosciency recommendations that are hard/impossible to disprove but aren't dangerous so you won't come sue me if they don't work. Then I'll charge you $200 for it, thank you very much.


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Post deleted by windschatten [ In reply to ]
Re: RunDNA from Toolbox Genomics [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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The thing is that 23&Me analysis is driven by AI - ie by the quality of the data science/statistical model employed. That's the part I am VERY skeptical about, having seen lack of any proof that this approach works even in a simpler field of the targeted marketing.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: RunDNA from Toolbox Genomics [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
lightheir wrote:
Genomic analysis so far is a bust. This MAY change down the road, but as of now, we understand so little of most genetic contributions to complicated things like running such that it's a joke to say they can give you actionable recommendations that have a significant impact on your running.

It's no differen from a scam where I could say that I could analyze your breathing patterns at rest and at exercise, cite a bunch of scientific studies about breathing that probably are only remotely related to the issue we're dealing with, and then come up with some pseudosciency recommendations that are hard/impossible to disprove but aren't dangerous so you won't come sue me if they don't work. Then I'll charge you $200 for it, thank you very much.


Agreed,
But given all the work required to actually do this and come up with an interpretation that skirts the legal line (medical), I think $200 is not that much money to feel good and get told that you too, can make it. :-$

Around SF you pay that much for a dinner date, and I am sure the clientele for self-optimization is quite receptive.

If I were forced to do it, I would go with a more established provider such as 23&Me, as their result accuracy and resources (+proprietary databases) are better and more refined than those of a startup.

The key thing - do it for FUN, but don't take it seriously.

There is a reason that medical doctors aren't using this technology in clinical practice despite the billions poured into it. Also consider that if a medical doctor started doing it and pushing it as a 'standard of care', he'd instantly be sued and lose his license for malpractice/fraud. Makes you think twice about doing it, even if you're on the 'bleeding edge' of tech.
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Re: RunDNA from Toolbox Genomics [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting

DNA analysis is working very well for horses, for exemple, to select the one capable from the others. Currently, investing in a yearling (one year old horse), DNA analysis is key.
However, this not apply to a recreational user... I cannot change my DNA

I have seen recently a study indicating that from a specific gene, people can answer positively to caffeine, or neutral or negatively.
This can help : I like caffeine, have the impression it give me a boost, but cannot prove it. DNA could help.

From power curve (thanks Dr Coggan), I know I'm not good at 1mn effort. Would be interesting to confirm with DNA if my choice to go long is the right one.... well, anyway, I like that, will not change.
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Post deleted by windschatten [ In reply to ]
Re: RunDNA from Toolbox Genomics [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:

What is your affiliation with them?

None. I listen to "Faster" (Flo Cycling podcast), they generally cover interesting stuff. They interviewed Dr Knurick of Toolbox Genomics, who essentially covered the basics of RunDNA and walked the hosts through the interpretation of the test results they've received. She seemed smart and articulate, but the approach of applying collated published research was a bit questionable to me. Thus the question to the ST hive brain.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: RunDNA from Toolbox Genomics [karlaj] [ In reply to ]
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karlaj wrote:
I think I don't see any data to back up the claims on the website. I think that data might not exist. I think I might save my money.

+100
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Re: RunDNA from Toolbox Genomics [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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I wouldn’t pay for it. I can get better information by purchasing the 23andme ancestry which is at about a 100 bucks right now? Download the raw data because that’s really the most important part of the package. Plug it into Promethease which is about 10 bucks? Then you will have more data than you know what you can do with. In fact, you’ll probably be overwhelmed. Save your raw data file and keep up to date with the science.

If you plan to dig further into this, there are a couple of genetic variants that are of great interest in the context of health and tri performance. One that I find most useful is to know your variant of cytochrome P450 which then determines the rate of caffeine metabolism. With a half life of 4-6 hours, it may help to guide you to your optimum caffeine dose on race day, training and sleep management.

Other important stuff is your MTHFR mutation status, APOE4 status, maybe you ALDH2 mutation status if you drink alcohol, but then again you should already know.

Testing your genotype along with a complete profile of lipids has the potential to steer your dietary and supplement inputs that can result in better outcomes.
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Re: RunDNA from Toolbox Genomics [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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alex_korr wrote:
What do you guys think of this product - https://www.toolboxgenomics.com/shop/rundna ? They were featured on the Flo cycling guys podcast recently. On the surface it seems like an interesting idea, but the fact that this analysis is based on essentially a collation of the published research results compiled by the company's research staff makes this a little bit more subjective IMO. Also the price point is pretty competitive vs 23andme.

Thoughts?

If I would be old ultra rich person eg 20+ billion , I would come up with similar business to collect healthy, fit people DNA and have it on file, then when I my family or friends need kidneys, liver, heart or other organ just send my boys to get it for me. They do this in Chinese prisons, but quality of organs is poor.
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Re: RunDNA from Toolbox Genomics [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:
If I would be old ultra rich person eg 20+ billion , I would come up with similar business to collect healthy, fit people DNA and have it on file, then when I my family or friends need kidneys, liver, heart or other organ just send my boys to get it for me. They do this in Chinese prisons, but quality of organs is poor.

That's not how we test for compatible organs. We test for organs first with compatible blood type, then HLA antigens,, which is usually tested with a combination of phenotype AND genotype. DNA is not enough to get a matching organ. Even with a perfect match organ, there are factors for reasons unknown in which the host immune system will attack the donor organ.

If I was a billionaire, I would pump money into cloning my own organs.

Even then, it's possible it won't be perfect and you'll still reject your own cloned organ because of some minor differences that we could not detect.

The best possible thing here is to stay healthy so that you won't need an organ. Stay healthy and active by doing triathlons. Stay healthy and active with.................. RunDNA. :D
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Post deleted by windschatten [ In reply to ]
Re: RunDNA from Toolbox Genomics [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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By the time you exhibit your phenotype, it’s too late, eg. Alzheimer’s. More info nowadays showing how diet and behavioral changes may improve your outcomes. Of course, value is in the eye of the beholder. That alone is the most valuable piece of information and easily worth the negligible cost of a 100 dollar test for me at least.
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