Whether by accident or design, the sequence of events goes in reducing order of consequence of fatigue-related failure. If you get in trouble on the run, you fall over and scrape something. If you get in trouble on the bike, you crash and break something. If you get in trouble in the water, you drown. There's no way in the modern litigious world that WTC is sending tired amateurs out onto a bike course with fast descents on!

There's also no way they're backing off from having 2,500 paying guests on the course with the majority qualifying, so it's either i) change the start process, ii) change the first 50km at massive disruption to the local community, iiii) spend money to deal with the drafting knowing the result is a lot of athletes soft-pedalling a lot of the time or iv) live with the drafting. A for-profit organisation will do iv) until such time as falling revenues push them to i) and/or iii). But athletes voting with their wallets and not taking up slots will be the stimulus, not athletes complaining.

solutions for drafting:
- I could see an scenario were in 5 years or so we will see a lower demand on Ironman races, so, the number total of races could be reduced in order to increase the value/demand on the remaining races. Let's see. So It would be possible to reduce the number of total slots.

- The demand of participating in IM WC is so high that they could increase the price (with the argument of reducing participants) and reduce slots number, same profit with less runners.

- They could introduce two days event, one for men and one for women. That will reduce the number of participants (although there are more men than women).

- They could introduce a drafting allowed zone to the first 50kms, after that point, drafting and blocking may be sanctioned with more time.

- they could introduce new technologies (gps in bikes), drones, more judges in order to increase the ratio sanctions/drafters (now is too low and for many cheaters worth the drafting).

I have to agree with Tuckandgo here. Practially speaking, there isn't 90km or even 36km of useable real estate, that's just the mathematical answer, if you string people out along the course. In reality, when around a thousand people exit the water inside 10 mins, the useable real estate is tiny for the opening kms, and it gradually expands as the race progresses. In effect the useable real estate is a moving tract of land out on the course.

You have boiled it down into a purely mathematical problem.

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29 years and counting

It seems to me very easy not to draft even in overcrowded conditions. Basically ride side by side, in separate lanes but not all in one line. On closed roads with both sides open you could easily ride 6 side by side; on one road, probably 3. So that triples the capacity of the course.

I agree that there is no way ever that s-b-r changes. But I disagree that it is because of risk of fatigue on bike and potential injury to athlete. If it were to be considered (which it never will), the fact that cyclists would be riding at night would eliminate the option. However, risk to athlete would not be the primary factor. I'd argue that running/walking/standing on the Queen K at 3pm in 90 degree heat and 100 percent humidity is greater risk than riding fatigued.

All that aside, curious the strategy of the pros if it were S-R-B. Does anyone believe Patrick Lange still dominates?

"Why do you say that? It is the exact type of course that lends itself to wave starts, in fact it is perfect in every way."

Oh, I agree with you, Monty. Technically it's fairly perfect for it. And it's the solution I believe works best. In my comment, I meant I just don't think the organizers or the athletes will move away from how they see essence of the event, at least not yet. But who knows. Until somewhat recently, everyone started together. Then they gave the pros a few meters head start. Then they divided the pro wave from the amateur. Then they separated the women pros. Now they have men, women, pros and amateurs separated. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll look hard at this issue and the available solution of further wave divisions.


I do think the athletes want the fairest race possible. And I firmly believe 99% of the athletes in the race are determined to compete as fairly as possible. It's just not possible to meet the drafting-related rules in the amateur waves right now, at least for the first bunch of cycling miles.

No it's very hard not to draft in overcrowded conditions. It becomes a queue. You do the rough maths, 4000 people, on 1.8m long bikes with 12m gaps is not going to work on a 180km bike course.

I was on a moto with the lead women and was appalled at the size of the group riding up to Hawi. In my estimation they could have pulled 300 athletes over. Three things could help solve the problem,

1. Rolling Start - TV would hate that.
2. Wind - There was no wind on the road to Hawi. The normal cross winds would break that big pack up.
3. Reduce the size of the field - To reduce the size of the field the first place to look would be the USA. Right now Ironman has kept the qualifying spots in the USA consistent. The growth is coming from outside specifically in Asia. If the filed is reduced it’s going to come from the USA the largest group.


Ironman is in the business of making money. Like any company they will drill down on their margins to the nth degree. The only number that matters to anyone outside the walls of Wanda is the bottom right number on the main spreadsheet. How you get to that bottom right number doesn’t really matter as long as the Brand can be maintained. So I suggest to Ironman accept the “Loss” on Kona and continue to strive to make it the best World Championship. Drive profit in your other events in this manner. Qualifying races and non-qualifying races. In the Qualifying races all the rules are strictly enforced. In the non-qualifying races drafting is not enforced at all. Safety is enforced. The majority of athletes are simply trying to check the box and finish the darn race. Give them a safe race they can finish. Give the top 20% athletes a safe and fair race they can race. Profits will go up.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

Your looking at it wrong way,Its not 56 miles stretch. If 800 competitors get out within 8-10 mins of each other that meant there is technically suppose to be 96000m (9.6km) between the first person of that 8-10mins and the last person of that 8-10 min at the 12 meter rule. So that 800 racers on a 6 mile stretch. At an average speed of 22mph you would need 15mins to cover that distance.

Or this:

Accept that Kona is (much to my disadvantage) essentially an ITU swim and run race. Unless you're a tremendously gifted biker like Vino, or a weak biker, your bike split correlates strongly with your swim time/seeding. So then it's just about who can run in the heat. At least that's the way it is for the men's age group race. And women's probably similar since the stronger swimmers catch the men's field.

Age group waves every 5 minutes is probably only reasonable solution

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

No it's very hard not to draft in overcrowded conditions. It becomes a queue. You do the rough maths, 4000 people, on 1.8m long bikes with 12m gaps is not going to work on a 180km bike course.

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Here's my take on it.....why not force athletes to ride the legal distance from the start of T1. Or 1 mile in, and so if your 28th out of 30th coming out of the water in your group, your penalized for that. You dont get the same benefit of the 3rd guy when you are 25 spots behind him.

So I'm not saying "slow down", I'm saying ride legal....if that means your holding up that's your problem for not swimming faster or coming out with 38 other people.




And another thing, if you say the field size is the issue, if we decrease it by 25%, isn't the same congestion still going to happen? Shit happens in an ITU race with only 60-75 people.



So everyone talking about "field size", it's not going to matter if they make it 1100 people (roughly what 56% decrease from today's field size), there is still going to be a "density" point that you guys are saying can't solve. Instead of it being 68 max people per min, it's 48, but I could then point to your same points you guys are saying "not enough room for those 48" people.

ETA: So the really only "truly" correct answer is to make it DL or like Dean was saying the other day, ride it however you want to..want to draft, cool. dont want to draft, dont. But make it simplier by removing the rules. Again that's if you want to clean up the issue. If we want to drag our feet and say no way, then we'll continue to see these issues even with wave starts. We'll still have these issues, instead it'll be smalller packs, and maybe that's "allowable" much more than 6 packs of 40-60 people, we can turn a blinder eye to groups of 12?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I feel for you, man. I'd love to draft in big packs but (when I raced more) I would come out so far behind on the swim I'd have to do all the passing. But now after some new young family members leading to lack of training time I've voted with my wallet and moved to occasional running races where being forced to slow down (during a race!) is not part of the strategy.

For the others - cue the self-righteous hatred for my drafting desires if you want, but if it takes more than five seconds to explain the intricacies of drafting then you're doing the sport all wrong. Just remember that I'm in the silent majority - those packs at mile 50 don't stay big on accident.


"Accept that Kona is (much to my disadvantage) essentially an ITU swim and run race. Unless you're a tremendously gifted biker like Vino, or a weak biker, your bike split correlates strongly with your swim time/seeding. So then it's just about who can run in the heat. At least that's the way it is for the men's age group race. And women's probably similar since the stronger swimmers catch the men's field"

I would say the bike is my strongest leg, so I hate to have to say this but..

I think IM needs to go draft legal. I have done over 150 tri's of various distances, and I have never gotten a drafting or blocking penalty. It is always makes me angry when I see people out there blatantly drafting. I am not talking about things like spacing too short on upgrades or taking a bit to long to pass, I mean the 2 feet back glued to the next wheel type drafting.

Even seeking less crowded races (almost always non M-Dot) I still have to accept that there are racers out there getting a massive advantage over me by cheating.

I would much rather ride according to the rules in a draft legal race.