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Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time
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Hoping someone in the ST community can provide some insight on the finish time at the recent Louisville Ironman race.

What was the ultimate cutoff for the race--actual time of day and number of hours? I know Lou is generally 16hrs 30 mins but with the modifications of course and time, I was not sure if the total hours was subsequently changed. Friends there heard it was 12:45am. However, a racing friend finished ~1230am, called out as an IM finisher, received a medal, etc but the next morning was listed as a DNF. I heard the swim start took a lot longer than expected so some racers might have started at 8am, while others started 90 minutes later. Prior to the race start, it sounded like anyone who finished by 1245 was good to go but now that's not true so we're trying to figure out where the miscommunication is!

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [CheeseheadinDC] [ In reply to ]
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CheeseheadinDC wrote:
Hoping someone in the ST community can provide some insight on the finish time at the recent Louisville Ironman race.

What was the ultimate cutoff for the race--actual time of day and number of hours? I know Lou is generally 16hrs 30 mins but with the modifications of course and time, I was not sure if the total hours was subsequently changed. Friends there heard it was 12:45am. However, a racing friend finished ~1230am, called out as an IM finisher, received a medal, etc but the next morning was listed as a DNF. I heard the swim start took a lot longer than expected so some racers might have started at 8am, while others started 90 minutes later. Prior to the race start, it sounded like anyone who finished by 1245 was good to go but now that's not true so we're trying to figure out where the miscommunication is!

Thanks in advance!

Was your friend over the 16:30 time?
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [coralsnake] [ In reply to ]
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No, her finish time was 15:33. Other friends finished ~15:04 and are listed as finishers. What's interesting is someone else (don't know this person) finished at 15:02 but listed as DNF for going over the max time.
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [CheeseheadinDC] [ In reply to ]
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CheeseheadinDC wrote:
Hoping someone in the ST community can provide some insight on the finish time at the recent Louisville Ironman race.

What was the ultimate cutoff for the race--actual time of day and number of hours? I know Lou is generally 16hrs 30 mins but with the modifications of course and time, I was not sure if the total hours was subsequently changed. Friends there heard it was 12:45am. However, a racing friend finished ~1230am, called out as an IM finisher, received a medal, etc but the next morning was listed as a DNF. I heard the swim start took a lot longer than expected so some racers might have started at 8am, while others started 90 minutes later. Prior to the race start, it sounded like anyone who finished by 1245 was good to go but now that's not true so we're trying to figure out where the miscommunication is!

Thanks in advance!

I saw a post that mentioned the following revised cutoffs, only announced after the race was over:

Total race time: 15:16
Swim+T1+Bike: 9:01
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [beastofbourbon] [ In reply to ]
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Editing this...seems like the 9:01 cutoff doomed the low 15hr overall finisher. Again a bummer if these times weren't announced at the beginning of the race!

Thanks.

15:16...seems rather random, but ok. Still doesn't explain how some of those who finished in the low 15s are listed as DNF. I assume there is a reason but it just doesn't add up right now. I feel for my friend who trained, prepared for the original 16:30 cut off and then during the race made sure to finish before 12:45am.
Last edited by: CheeseheadinDC: Oct 18, 18 16:22
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [CheeseheadinDC] [ In reply to ]
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CheeseheadinDC wrote:
Thanks.

15:16...seems rather random, but ok. Still doesn't explain how some of those who finished in the low 15s are listed as DNF. I assume there is a reason but it just doesn't add up right now. I feel for my friend who trained, prepared for the original 16:30 cut off and then during the race made sure to finish before 12:45am.


Did it take them more than 9:01 to get to T2?

It looks like they just shortened everything by 1:14 to account for the shorter swim.
Last edited by: beastofbourbon: Oct 18, 18 16:19
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [beastofbourbon] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, when I re-did the math, the person in the low 15s finished the swim+T1+bike in about 9:06.
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [CheeseheadinDC] [ In reply to ]
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In real time I would have assumed the cutoff time would be reduced by the prorated swim distance multiplied by the original swim cutoff so .9/2.4 would be 37.5% of the original cutoff time. There was a strong current so it should have been a lot easier as long as you didnt overshoot the swim exit. Its a bummer if people were told incorrect information by race officials.
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [CheeseheadinDC] [ In reply to ]
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CheeseheadinDC wrote:
Again a bummer if these times weren't announced at the beginning of the race!

Looks like it was announced at 1:49 AM EDT Monday, just about an hour AFTER the last opportunity for an official finish.
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [beastofbourbon] [ In reply to ]
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1 hr after the race this was announced?? Ugh, that completely stinks and seems unreasonable. I understand and value the notion of cutoff times but if those change without warning, that's some BS. Those that were in the final 5k, estimating that they will finish with time to spare only to learn the next day, not quite has to be frustrating. I'll give this info to my friend to see if she wants to send an email to Ironman.
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [Gonefishin5555] [ In reply to ]
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Gonefishin5555 wrote:
In real time I would have assumed the cutoff time would be reduced by the prorated swim distance multiplied by the original swim cutoff so .9/2.4 would be 37.5% of the original cutoff time. There was a strong current so it should have been a lot easier as long as you didnt overshoot the swim exit. Its a bummer if people were told incorrect information by race officials.


There were a lot of 15-20 min swim times. And to just pro-rate the swim split it would be 140min * 0.9/2.4 = 52.5 min so there's nothing wrong with the reduction of the time limit in itself.

So why not announce it BEFORE the start of the race? Or why not just maintain time-of-day cutoffs so everyone knows what they're actually racing against?!

IMHO just another shit move from a shit organization.
Last edited by: beastofbourbon: Oct 19, 18 5:30
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [beastofbourbon] [ In reply to ]
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Are the cutoffs different than what it said in the athletes guide? The 12:45AM cutoff was clearly listed and it seems like it was kept. Race was shortened but started later to compensate. Usually there is a cutoff at the end of the bike - was it different than the athletes guide said? My experience has always been that many people never read the athletes guide and then seem surprised or frustrated afterwards when they discover the cutoffs the hard way (and find it unfair) when it was usually already communicated way in advance.
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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The final cutoff is different that the athlete guide (15:16 vs 16:30). However, I believe they maintained the posted other course cutoffs (start of second loop on bike at 2:45, finish of bike at 6:30, run turn around at 9:48, etc). Due to the late start, instead of 10:15 for the bike closure that was amended to 9:06 (or whatever the above posters have posted) but that was determined because 6:30pm was 9:06 after the last athlete entered the water. The problem was that the change of overall final cutoff time from 16:30 to 15:16 was never ever conveyed to the athletes. Athletes were asking prior to the swim start, on the bike course, in T and on the run course what the delayed start and shortened swim did to the final cutoffs and each time they were told that as long as you make the cutoffs: 2:45 for loop 1, 6:30 for bike, run turn at 9:48 and 12:45am for the finish, you would be a finisher. It was after the fact that they announced that in addition to meeting those cutoffs (in a message in the app posted at 1:45am on Monday(, your total time also had to be 15:16 or less. Many athletes meet the posted cutoff times and finished prior to 12:45 but we given a DNF because their total time was over 15:16.

It is understandable that due to the shortened swim that it would make sense to change the finish time from 16:30 to something less but you have to tell the athletes and not do it after the fact. I "finished" but I understand why does that didn't are upset.
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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The Athlete Guide said the bike course closes at 6:30 PM and the individual cutoff for swim+T1+bike was 10:15.

On Sunday the last athlete was in the water at 9:38 AM. AFTER the race was over they decided the individual cutoff for swim+T1+bike was 9:01, which would have given the last starter until 6:39 PM.

The Athlete Guide said all athletes had 16:30 to complete the race and receive an official finish time. On Sunday AFTER the race, the time limit was modified to 15:16, which would have given the last starter until 12:54 AM.

Time-of-day cutoffs would have been common sense, but who the hell has the ability to compute adjusted individual cutoffs while racing?! It should have been announced BEFORE the race STARTED, not AFTER the race ENDED. If they couldn't establish and communicate clear rules, they needed to suck it up and give official finishing times to people who met whatever cutoffs they DID communicate ahead of time.

It's one thing to make it up at the last minute; sometimes you have to. But making it up after the fact is pure bullshit. Could you imagine sending everyone off in a wetsuit-legal race, then finding after the swim that the thermometer was bad and the water was really 77F? Should they then DQ everyone who chose to race in a wetsuit?!
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [CheeseheadinDC] [ In reply to ]
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CheeseheadinDC wrote:
Editing this...seems like the 9:01 cutoff doomed the low 15hr overall finisher. Again a bummer if these times weren't announced at the beginning of the race!

Thanks.

15:16...seems rather random, but ok. Still doesn't explain how some of those who finished in the low 15s are listed as DNF. I assume there is a reason but it just doesn't add up right now. I feel for my friend who trained, prepared for the original 16:30 cut off and then during the race made sure to finish before 12:45am.

You have to meet all intermediate cut-offs as well as the final cut-off to be scored as a finisher.
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:

You have to meet all intermediate cut-offs as well as the final cut-off to be scored as a finisher.

And athletes competing at IMLOU had no way of knowing what these cutoffs would be. Complete FAIL on WTC's part.
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [beastofbourbon] [ In reply to ]
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beastofbourbon wrote:
HuffNPuff wrote:


You have to meet all intermediate cut-offs as well as the final cut-off to be scored as a finisher.


And athletes competing at IMLOU had no way of knowing what these cutoffs would be. Complete FAIL on WTC's part.

Yes, I understand that. That would have required a decision from higher up to direct who ever does the post race tabulations to check only for total time. It's apparent that wasn't done.
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [beastofbourbon] [ In reply to ]
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They announced that the cutoffs other than the swim times wouldn't change and everyone would have 16:30 to finish the race at the swim start. I don't recall the exact verbiage, but I was up by the announcer and the impression I took away was that despite the shortened swim, everyone would have 16:30 to finish.

I do feel bad for the people that thought they finished and got a DNF. There is a lot of buzz on FB about it in the IMLV group. I feel like the race should have done a better job communicating the cut offs to people, at least on the run course. I am sure some were moseying in thinking they had an extra hour.

I think shortening the already generous cutoffs is warranted, but I also think it should be communicated to athletes in danger of missing them. My interpretation from the swim start was actually that it wouldn't be shortened which adds to the confusion for people.
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [TennesseeJed] [ In reply to ]
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TennesseeJed wrote:
They announced that the cutoffs other than the swim times wouldn't change and everyone would have 16:30 to finish the race at the swim start. I don't recall the exact verbiage, but I was up by the announcer and the impression I took away was that despite the shortened swim, everyone would have 16:30 to finish.

I do feel bad for the people that thought they finished and got a DNF. There is a lot of buzz on FB about it in the IMLV group. I feel like the race should have done a better job communicating the cut offs to people, at least on the run course. I am sure some were moseying in thinking they had an extra hour.

I think shortening the already generous cutoffs is warranted, but I also think it should be communicated to athletes in danger of missing them. My interpretation from the swim start was actually that it wouldn't be shortened which adds to the confusion for people.

There were some people who were DNF'd for missing the bike cutoff, which also was never communicated.

The rules were changed after the race was over.
Shit move.
Shit organization.
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [beastofbourbon] [ In reply to ]
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Can I get my M Dot tattoo or what? Can someone tell me?
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [aavlee] [ In reply to ]
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aavlee wrote:
Can I get my M Dot tattoo or what? Can someone tell me?

The best time to get it done will be while IMFL is going on. I heard they need all the volunteers they can get, so the Mdot tattoo police will all be busy that day.
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [instigator] [ In reply to ]
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instigator wrote:
The final cutoff is different that the athlete guide (15:16 vs 16:30). However, I believe they maintained the posted other course cutoffs (start of second loop on bike at 2:45, finish of bike at 6:30, run turn around at 9:48, etc). Due to the late start, instead of 10:15 for the bike closure that was amended to 9:06 (or whatever the above posters have posted) but that was determined because 6:30pm was 9:06 after the last athlete entered the water. The problem was that the change of overall final cutoff time from 16:30 to 15:16 was never ever conveyed to the athletes. Athletes were asking prior to the swim start, on the bike course, in T and on the run course what the delayed start and shortened swim did to the final cutoffs and each time they were told that as long as you make the cutoffs: 2:45 for loop 1, 6:30 for bike, run turn at 9:48 and 12:45am for the finish, you would be a finisher. It was after the fact that they announced that in addition to meeting those cutoffs (in a message in the app posted at 1:45am on Monday(, your total time also had to be 15:16 or less. Many athletes meet the posted cutoff times and finished prior to 12:45 but we given a DNF because their total time was over 15:16.

It is understandable that due to the shortened swim that it would make sense to change the finish time from 16:30 to something less but you have to tell the athletes and not do it after the fact. I "finished" but I understand why does that didn't are upset.
I understand - I read the athletes guide on race day during the race to check the cutoff times and I noticed there were 'time of day' cutoffs as well as 'maximum duration' cutoffs and while those were aligned for the last person to start the race it was probably confusing for those starting earlier. The rules as applied on race day were basically what I would have expected them to be. They kept the 'time of day' cutoffs as before, but recalculated the 'max duration' cutoffs based on the last person to start and that had some impact on some late finishers. At the end of the day, it seems like a fair decision because all participants need to be given the same amount of time to complete the course (and now that mass starts are a thing of the past that's way more messy to manage). If you are a participant in the race I can understand that it sucks if you missed an intermediate cutoff. That said, if you know you're gonna be chasing time of day cutoffs you're gonna be chasing duration cutoffs too and you should do whatever you can to save time. My experience with friends having missed cutoffs is that very often they are also the people who wasted the most time in T1 and T2. Not saying that's always the case, but it happens very, very often.
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Re: Clarification Needed on IMLOU Finish Time [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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Benv wrote:
I understand - I read the athletes guide on race day during the race to check the cutoff times and I noticed there were 'time of day' cutoffs as well as 'maximum duration' cutoffs and while those were aligned for the last person to start the race it was probably confusing for those starting earlier. The rules as applied on race day were basically what I would have expected them to be. They kept the 'time of day' cutoffs as before, but recalculated the 'max duration' cutoffs based on the last person to start and that had some impact on some late finishers. At the end of the day, it seems like a fair decision because all participants need to be given the same amount of time to complete the course (and now that mass starts are a thing of the past that's way more messy to manage). If you are a participant in the race I can understand that it sucks if you missed an intermediate cutoff. That said, if you know you're gonna be chasing time of day cutoffs you're gonna be chasing duration cutoffs too and you should do whatever you can to save time. My experience with friends having missed cutoffs is that very often they are also the people who wasted the most time in T1 and T2. Not saying that's always the case, but it happens very, very often.


But how is an athlete supposed to KNOW what the new duration cutoff is if they only announce it AFTER the race is OVER?!

The fair application of any rule requires that participants know what that rule is when they start the competition, and that it doesn't change during the competition, or in this case retroactively. It's like the cop showing up at your door saying that he clocked you at 65 yesterday on a road that was posted 65, but we decided the speed limit is actually 55 so you get a ticket.
Last edited by: beastofbourbon: Oct 20, 18 7:05
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