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Re: Kona Bike: Wurf 3+ min faster, Men's bike train ~ -10 to -12 , Ryf -27, Charles -20 [kny] [ In reply to ]
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I concur. Have Kona be every 4 years like Olympics and do elsewhere all other years like World Championships.


The could have a 4 year rotation with one being in Kona, another in a warm climate with mountains, a third in a northern climate and then a northern climate with mountains. It would test triathletes on all courses. It would be like the majors in both tennis and golf and once you win all 4, it would be a grand slam and really show who is the best all-round triathlete.
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Re: Kona Bike: Wurf 3+ min faster, Men's bike train ~ -10 to -12 , Ryf -27, Charles -20 [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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cartsman wrote:
With wind resistance riding exponentially there's diminishing returns the faster you get, I guess that's part of it.

Tactics is another. I would guess Wurf could well have been holding back a bit compared to last year in order to save himself for a better run, especially if he realised that Kienle and Sanders were out of it. Conversely Ryf likely had to pull out all the stops after the position she found herself in after the swim and early bike.

Wind resistance is NOT an exponential function (of speed). The resistance (i.e. the force) is a quadratic function of speed, so the power required to maintain the speed is proportianal to the third power of the speed.
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Re: Kona Bike: Wurf 3+ min faster, Men's bike train ~ -10 to -12 , Ryf -27, Charles -20 [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
burnthesheep wrote:
I’d like to see what happens at a Kona level event with 11k of elevation. No matter how you slice it for the bike leg, a 200ish pound rider being competitive is a bit silly outside of track racing.

It's sacrilege, but I always thought the IM champs should be rotated among courses. The current one selects for people who handle heat well, and can pace raw power on the bike.

Throw down some altitude, colder water or weather. Some different winds. Some legitimate climbing (both bike and run). Make the likes of Ryf and Lange demonstrate some range in their skills if they want to repeat.

So in certain years we would have very tough bike courses with 10'000 plus feet elevation gain? That would be cool.

Pink: But then it would'nt be an ironman because of no age group packs

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40
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Re: Kona Bike: Wurf 3+ min faster, Men's bike train ~ -10 to -12 , Ryf -27, Charles -20 [bluefever] [ In reply to ]
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bluefever wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:

I really would love to see Cam's power files if they exist,


He's put it on Strava. 297W Avg - not much drop off.

https://www.strava.com/activities/1903697525

I'm not an expert, can't say much else, will leave that to you :)

Add for the Pioneer offset to put him well over 300;)
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Re: Kona Bike: Wurf 3+ min faster, Men's bike train ~ -10 to -12 , Ryf -27, Charles -20 [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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Conversely Ryf likely had to pull out all the stops after the position she found herself in after the swim and early bike. //

Ya, she overcooked the bike and had a horrible run, oh wait a minute...It's pretty simple really, the womens bike record was soft, the mens was not. And all those folks we watched in the lead or near it all day, guess what was responsible for those shots? It isnt hours, but their are minutes to be gained every times you feel the pressure come off the pedals and that Moto gets its 30 to minute+ shots. That is why all your power, Cda, whatever calculations fall apart, it is not a vaccum that they race in.


And I watched the entire race, there was no real back pro men help to those two ladies. Hell, Lucy didn't really catch a guy that could have been helpful until after the turnaround, and then even he was only there for a couple minutes. Funny though that was the exact spot that Ryf got to see her on the turnaround, probably though he had been there the whole way, mind is funny like that in the heat of battle.


And Ryf rides a very well paced race, she builds into it by hours, not blasting off or burning of matches, not until she is near the finish. And then she has built to such a good pace, it is the fastest she rides the course, like Paula used to do. They also have to be heat gifted too, that is what throws a lot of you off when seeing these folks, you can't imagine that the heat just does not affect them like it does most people, so they race along like it is 60 degrees, not 90.


IT was a very fast race by both men and women, the delta to Ryf from Lange was about as low as it gets for an ironman, so several athletes were able to take advantage of the super fast conditions. But it is going to be a shocker one of these years, two of the fastest years ever in a row, we are due for some brutal conditions, and a much, much different race play out..
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Re: Kona Bike: Wurf 3+ min faster, Men's bike train ~ -10 to -12 , Ryf -27, Charles -20 [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Conversely Ryf likely had to pull out all the stops after the position she found herself in after the swim and early bike. //

Ya, she overcooked the bike and had a horrible run, oh wait a minute...It's pretty simple really, the womens bike record was soft, the mens was not. And all those folks we watched in the lead or near it all day, guess what was responsible for those shots? It isnt hours, but their are minutes to be gained every times you feel the pressure come off the pedals and that Moto gets its 30 to minute+ shots. That is why all your power, Cda, whatever calculations fall apart, it is not a vaccum that they race in.

I see you reference the moto/media benefit for the race leaders a lot, and I trust it was true back in the day that Wolfgang could tuck in behind the lead van. But, watching yesterday and all motos and race vehicles were well off in the left lane, never in front. If there was benefit to be had, I wasn't seeing it and at most, it was very minimal. Maybe cross winds were getting blocked, but even that is a stretch. I think it's a way cleaner race for the pros than it used to be.
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Re: Kona Bike: Wurf 3+ min faster, Men's bike train ~ -10 to -12 , Ryf -27, Charles -20 [kny] [ In reply to ]
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there's a good graphic somewhere that shows the benefits of the moto for leading, on the side, and trailing. It's tangible.

kny wrote:
monty wrote:
Conversely Ryf likely had to pull out all the stops after the position she found herself in after the swim and early bike. //

Ya, she overcooked the bike and had a horrible run, oh wait a minute...It's pretty simple really, the womens bike record was soft, the mens was not. And all those folks we watched in the lead or near it all day, guess what was responsible for those shots? It isnt hours, but their are minutes to be gained every times you feel the pressure come off the pedals and that Moto gets its 30 to minute+ shots. That is why all your power, Cda, whatever calculations fall apart, it is not a vaccum that they race in.


I see you reference the moto/media benefit for the race leaders a lot, and I trust it was true back in the day that Wolfgang could tuck in behind the lead van. But, watching yesterday and all motos and race vehicles were well off in the left lane, never in front. If there was benefit to be had, I wasn't seeing it and at most, it was very minimal. Maybe cross winds were getting blocked, but even that is a stretch. I think it's a way cleaner race for the pros than it used to be.

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Re: Kona Bike: Wurf 3+ min faster, Men's bike train ~ -10 to -12 , Ryf -27, Charles -20 [kny] [ In reply to ]
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But, watching yesterday and all motos and race vehicles were well off in the left lane, never in front. //

Neve say never..(-; Sure, a lot of shots are from the side(blocking any side wind, which seemed to be missing yesterday), but there were some helicopter shots, especially when Wurf broke Josh and the Moto was directly in front of him. It may have just been 30 or 40 seconds, but I can tell you that is a huge relief when all the pressure comes off the pedals and you spin a few more RPM's..


And funny you mention Wolfgang, he was so the opposite of that. When they had the iron war how many shots of him 3 minutes up the road do you remember? I will tell you, none, because the entire media train was back with Mark and Dave. See any shots of Greg Welch in 4th behind them too? And I remember a year when Kenny Glah left the safety of the lead group to go solo off the front, the motos let him go, and stayed with all the action in the group. It is not always there for folks off the front, but if it is towards the end and you make a break, then you will probably get some.
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Re: Kona Bike: Wurf 3+ min faster, Men's bike train ~ -10 to -12 , Ryf -27, Charles -20 [kny] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, agree, looked like less drafting than usual.

Sucks with that day off for Sanders, Kienle and Gomez. Especially for last two , Kienle in a great position after the swim and Gomez pretty close out on the run course.
I expected them all in top 5 but that how hard it is to predict

Big surprise that Starky , Sanders and Kienle didnt have 2-5 bike split..

Next year gonna be exciting again. Probably closer than this year. Can't imagine Frodeno , Gomez, Kienle and Sanders beeing out from the top 10 for years in a row
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Re: Kona Bike: Wurf 3+ min faster, Men's bike train ~ -10 to -12 , Ryf -27, Charles -20 [monty] [ In reply to ]
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You don't say. Ryf outbiked Lange, Starkey, Gomez and nearly everyone except for Wurf, Weiss and Skipper over the last 70km of the ride.
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Re: Kona Bike: Wurf 3+ min faster, Men's bike train ~ -10 to -12 , Ryf -27, Charles -20 [kny] [ In reply to ]
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kny wrote:
No one in the train wants to be the fool that leads it. Everyone wants to sit in and benefit. But not this year. Lange's domestique was there to pull Lange to a fast time, so that accounts for some or much of the TY/LY delta between the train and Cam.

As annoying as it was watching Dreitz seemingly suboridnate his race to the success of the pack, he did back it up with a 3:02 run and came in at 8:14. Buy you would have thought that he would done like Josh and go with Wurf and give that a try rather than site in front of a train all day to give the faster runners than him a spring board. I would have thought that the way Drietz was riding he could have taken off and not hauled around a ton of excess baggage. If he rode with Starky and Cam he may have ridden 3-4 min faster of less watts and had a 3-4 min faster run (assuming he used less watts on the bike). He'd have been in range of a top 5 finish because all the guys who passed him after the bike would have ended up leaving T2 further back if he was not there doing all that towing.

Then again, maybe he gets a bigger team bonus cheque from his sponsor if one of their athletes gets on the podium so it may be a roll of the dice on which strategy gets him more money

Dev
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