Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Cat evolution and testing an evolutionary prediction
Quote | Reply
Some researchers did an exhaustive DNA analysis of the 37 modern cat species, and were able to generate a family tree that includes these species plus the species in the fossil record. In addition, they were able to determine the sequence of migrations (for example, from Asia to North America) that led to the various species we now have. I think they used mitochondrial DNA, which has a well-known mutation rate.

One interesting observation is that the cheetah originated in North America and migrated to Asia some millions of years ago. It has long been speculated that there had been a really fast, unknown predator in North America that would explain why the pronghorn is so fast (it's got cheetah - 60mph - speed, and incredible endurance). It's so much faster than anything around today, that evolution "predicted" the prior existence of a fast predator that caused a selection of a fast prey animal.

Kinda neat, if you buy into these things.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
Quote Reply
Re: Cat evolution and testing an evolutionary prediction [klehner] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
One interesting observation is that the cheetah originated in North America and migrated to Asia some millions of years ago.


I find that interesting, but not at all surprising. Since NA was populated with camels and elephants, why not cheetahs?


---
"You'll find a slight squeeze on the hooter an excellent safety precaution, Miss Scrumptious."

"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." -- Richard Feynman
Quote Reply
Re: Cat evolution and testing an evolutionary prediction [Xenu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Quote:
One interesting observation is that the cheetah originated in North America and migrated to Asia some millions of years ago.


I find that interesting, but not at all surprising. Since NA was populated with camels and elephants, why not cheetahs?
Elephants, or mammoths/mastodons? Also, did the camels originate in NA or migrate there? How come there weren't any Egyptians in NA, too (edit: THIS IS A JOKE)? Or were there?

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
Last edited by: klehner: Jan 6, 06 8:15
Quote Reply
Re: Cat evolution and testing an evolutionary prediction [klehner] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If you're interested in real genetic evolution, read Stuart Kauffmann's Origins of Order. Groundbreaking research

in Evolution, modeling of Gene regulatory networks, connections with dynamical systems, why some species fall

in gene sinks, why some species get to evolve in a less than optimal fashion etc. It's difficult to read for the

non specialist, but there is a lot of text that is readable to a neophyte.

Besides, it is a good way to not read statements like 'a complete exhaustive analysis of DNA'...what does this mean? a complete

sequencing? a complete chemical description? a complete determinitation of quaternary structure?


--------------------------------------------------

"We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe."
Quote Reply
Re: Cat evolution and testing an evolutionary prediction [klehner] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I assume you're joking, but I would have to guess the idea of "Egyptians" in NA millions of years ago to not be a terribly meaningful idea, given divergent evolution and the time frame. Unless of course you believe everything in the Bible has been literally proven true, in which case this discussion is just more liberal scientific blather.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin
"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here." - Alvy Singer, "Annie Hall"
Quote Reply
Re: Cat evolution and testing an evolutionary prediction [klehner] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
From roughly 3000BC to now does not leave a lot of time for any type of evolutionary changes in humans you know.


--------------------------------------------------

"We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe."
Last edited by: JW von Goethe: Jan 6, 06 8:03
Quote Reply
Re: Cat evolution and testing an evolutionary prediction [trio_jeepy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
I assume you're joking, but I would have to guess the idea of "Egyptians" in NA millions of years ago to not be a terribly meaningful idea, given divergent evolution and the time frame. Unless of course you believe everything in the Bible has been literally proven true, in which case this discussion is just more liberal scientific blather.
Of course I was joking. You think I lost my mind since, like, yesterday?

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
Quote Reply
Re: Cat evolution and testing an evolutionary prediction [JW von Goethe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
If you're interested in real genetic evolution, read Stuart Kauffmann's Origins of Order. Groundbreaking research

in Evolution, modeling of Gene regulatory networks, connections with dynamical systems, why some species fall

in gene sinks, why some species get to evolve in a less than optimal fashion etc. It's difficult to read for the

non specialist, but there is a lot of text that is readable to a neophyte.

Besides, it is a good way to not read statements like 'a complete exhaustive analysis of DNA'...what does this mean? a complete

sequencing? a complete chemical description? a complete determinitation of quaternary structure?
I'm not bright enough to know what you are talking about; all I'm going on is this article [/url]in the NYTimes (free registration required). By exhaustive , I meant looking at all cat species. At least I think that's what I meant. I'm pretty sure that the cat genome has not been completely sequenced.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
Quote Reply
Re: Cat evolution and testing an evolutionary prediction [klehner] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Elephants, or mammoths/mastodons?




From http://info.neded.org/...arttwo/nefossil.html

Although the mammoth was an elephant, it was much larger than the modern elephant.

(edited to add:)The largest, the Imperial elephant (sometimes reaching heights of 13 to 14 feet), and the Columbian elephant roamed west of the Mississippi from Nebraska to northern Mexico. (end edit)

One mammoth found in Lincoln County is reportedly the world's largest elephant.

So I'm not really sure what the answer to your question is. Yes, I think. ;->

Quote:
Also, did the camels originate in NA or migrate there?


I don't know the answer to that...only that they lived here.

Quote:
How come there weren't any Egyptians in NA, too (edit: THIS IS A JOKE)? Or were there?


I currently have no opinion on Egyptians in NA. But they may find pyramids in Iowa someday. ;->


---
"You'll find a slight squeeze on the hooter an excellent safety precaution, Miss Scrumptious."

"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." -- Richard Feynman
Last edited by: Xenu: Jan 6, 06 9:03
Quote Reply
Re: Cat evolution and testing an evolutionary prediction [Xenu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Well, there's some speculation that Egyptians actually made it across the Atlantic to central america/mexico, and that's where the idea for the central american pyramids came from. Some art is similar. I took a class from a guy who was investigating these possible linkages, but it's been 15 years and my memories are a little hazy.
Quote Reply
Re: Cat evolution and testing an evolutionary prediction [klehner] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Also, did the camels originate in NA or migrate there?


Originated here, apparently.

"Camels originated in North America about 45 million years ago. At about 2-3 million years ago, they migrated to Eurasia and Africa, moving in the opposite direction from the many other animals that migrated to North America." (source:http://www.tarpits.org/...ide/flora/camel.html)

Thank you for making me look that up. I didn't know that camels originated in NA. I only knew that they lived here.


---
"You'll find a slight squeeze on the hooter an excellent safety precaution, Miss Scrumptious."

"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." -- Richard Feynman
Quote Reply
Re: Cat evolution and testing an evolutionary prediction [peter826] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am certainly no expert in this matter. I do find it very interesting though. I have read some about the similarities between the Egyptian pyramids, and Maya temples, and Ziggurauts and so on. It seems that there is always someone who says something like, "They must be linked." But you know, when I was a lad of 2 and building with blocks, I'll be the most successful "tall" structures I built were of a pyramid shape. Given the building structures that these ancient civilzations had to work with, I really can't imagine them being anything but similar.

I heard a lecture a few years ago from a historical linguist that was graphing similarities in languages. Now this was interesting and I remember being completely flabbergasted about some of her conclusions. I wish that I could remember specifics enough to list them, but I do recall her talking at length about the North American Indian and the Inuits (sp?).

Bernie

______________
"Slowbern has always made astute observations."-Casey 03/10/2009
2013-2014 Detroit Lions---13-3 until proved otherwise.
Quote Reply
Re: Cat evolution and testing an evolutionary prediction [klehner] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just checking man. My favorite quote from that article - "the cat that has induced people to pay for its board and lodging in return for frugal displays of affection."

It reminds me of this PBS special on pets - humans fed and cared for dogs, and in return dogs looked up at us as gods; humans fed and cared for cats, and in return cats thought, "man, we must be gods."


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin
"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here." - Alvy Singer, "Annie Hall"
Quote Reply
Re: Cat evolution and testing an evolutionary prediction [slowbern] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
It seems that there is always someone who says something like, "They must be linked." But you know, when I was a lad of 2 and building with blocks, I'll be the most successful "tall" structures I built were of a pyramid shape. Given the building structures that these ancient civilzations had to work with, I really can't imagine them being anything but similar.


Yes. The other thing about so many ancient pyramids being in existence is that it's an extremely stable shape, as you discovered when you were a wee lad. This is because, when a structure falls down, what does it fall into? That's right, a pyramid. So a pyramid can't fall down, because it was already built in a low energy state...it has already fallen down, because it was built that way.


---
"You'll find a slight squeeze on the hooter an excellent safety precaution, Miss Scrumptious."

"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." -- Richard Feynman
Quote Reply