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Position and equipment for the next season advice
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Hello everyone,
I have a few questions about my position on my Scott plasma 5 and my equipment:

https://youtu.be/T_6IPOmD1WU

My concern is that I feel my cda is quite bad, but looking at my position I have a hard time finding the best things to change.
Last IM I did around 5h20min bike leg. FTP is around 300 (80kg/181 cm or 177lb/5’11), but I can’t know what was my NP during the race because my powertap broke down again. I feel like I did maybe 190 W average (pretty low, but I had been sick the past 4 weeks)

- Aerobars extensions : It’s a second hand bike, and the extensions have been cut quite short (315 mm) Although it might look OK on the video, having my elbows on the pads mean my hand are basically not holding anything. Last Full IM was very rainy and in order to be safe I had to move my elbows quite a bit backward in order to get a good grip with my hands. I want to buy either the basic extensions (t5+ profil design 380mm), or the Zipp Vuka with either 70mm or 110 mm stack which looks much more comfortable to me... however I don’t have the possibility to modify the incline of the rest pads so 110 might be too much. They are also quite expensive in my opinion.

- Pads: The basic pads are very slippery whenever I start sweating or the weather is rainy. F35 pads TT version appear to be a solution, but maybe you guys have better advice?

- Saddle: I’m using a specialized Power, but it becomes quite uncomfortable after 3h+ ride. Is the Specialized sitero really better for a TT position? The both have split noze.

- Shoes: those are antic Northwave carbon tri shoes. They must be around 10Y old but still work great, I don’t know if there is a lot of aero gain to be made here.

- Kit: using a Zerod TT singlet and Ishorts. Those are comfortable and convenient if you have an emergency during the race…but looking at the race pictures it seems that I always have huge wrinkles around my stomach. Should I go for a single piece tri suit?

- Wheels: Easton 38mm front and back with tubular. Ideally I would go for a 60mm front / 80mm or disc in the back, but considering my level I think the gain would really be ridiculous for the money spent.

Any thoughts on what I could improve? My goal is to spend only money if it really is useful, gaining 10 secs for $1000 over 180km is not what I am looking for. “Don’t spend anything, train harder and lose some weight” is also something I’m ready to accept if it’s the solution.
Thanks for reading!
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Re: Position and equipment for the next season advice [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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Nice fit. If it were me I'd want just at tit more reach but if it feels comfortable looks good.
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Re: Position and equipment for the next season advice [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Fishbum wrote:
Nice fit. If it were me I'd want just at tit more reach but if it feels comfortable looks good.

I agree, looks nice (but I am not a bike fitter!).
Others will give you much more sound advice, but here goes:
1. Have you considered something to break the airflow between your hands and head? That space looks like it needs filling to optimise your drag. Tilted extensions or L shaped extensions, plus a BTA bottle might be worthwhile considering and are a pretty cheap option.
2. Wheels; I think there is a massive benefit to be had in terms of moving from 38 mm to deeper dish on flat courses. I will see if I can put some calculations into my best bike split account and see what it would do on the IM courses I have loaded.
3. You don't need to drop any weight!
4. Great FTP and W/kg ratio, a 5:20 bike split with that FTP and weight seems on the slower side for what you should be able to do.
5. Saddle; highly individual choice. I don't like the sitero but do like the power saddle, trying an ISM at the moment and seems to work nicely for longer ride.
6. Kit: marginal gain, I am not sure if stomach creases rate as highly in terms of drag over shoulder and arm creases, given ideally you would redirect airflow away from your torso if you get a higher hand position/BTA bottle.
7. Shoes: marginal gain-not a major
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Re: Position and equipment for the next season advice [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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Aero helmet is going to be your biggest gain.

blog
Last edited by: stevej: Sep 6, 18 4:21
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Re: Position and equipment for the next season advice [pbnz] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for your answers.

@ Stevej : Concerning the helmet : I forgot to talk about this particular point. My main concern here is that I hate heat, and I have a really low tolerance to it. So I chose the Scott cadence, thinking that if it's good enough for Kienle is already 10 times too good for me with the benefit of cooling my head :) I might be completely wrong however.

@Fishbum : I really would like some more reach, which currently isn't possible with the length of my extensions. I just tried being 2cm further on the H.Trainer, you're right it feels much more comfortable.


pbnz wrote:
Fishbum wrote:
Nice fit. If it were me I'd want just at tit more reach but if it feels comfortable looks good.


I agree, looks nice (but I am not a bike fitter!).
Others will give you much more sound advice, but here goes:
1. Have you considered something to break the airflow between your hands and head? That space looks like it needs filling to optimise your drag. Tilted extensions or L shaped extensions, plus a BTA bottle might be worthwhile considering and are a pretty cheap option.
2. Wheels; I think there is a massive benefit to be had in terms of moving from 38 mm to deeper dish on flat courses. I will see if I can put some calculations into my best bike split account and see what it would do on the IM courses I have loaded.
3. You don't need to drop any weight!
4. Great FTP and W/kg ratio, a 5:20 bike split with that FTP and weight seems on the slower side for what you should be able to do.
5. Saddle; highly individual choice. I don't like the sitero but do like the power saddle, trying an ISM at the moment and seems to work nicely for longer ride.
6. Kit: marginal gain, I am not sure if stomach creases rate as highly in terms of drag over shoulder and arm creases, given ideally you would redirect airflow away from your torso if you get a higher hand position/BTA bottle.
7. Shoes: marginal gain-not a major

I look forward for your input about a wheel change, I didn't think I had that much to gain there except good look.
Concerning your point 1. : that's exactly why I am considering the Zipp Vuka extensions instead of just buying the original T5+ extensions. Any thought on the 70mm or 110 mm version?

70 : https://www.bikester.fr/698780.html
110 : https://www.bikester.fr/698781.html
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Re: Position and equipment for the next season advice [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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Best bike split gives me about a 6 min advantage between deep dish and 30 mm wheels over 180 km IM flat IM course at around 195-200 watts.
I use the 70 mm extensions, do you realise there is an aluminium version that is a lot cheaper? (about 1/3-1/2 the price of the carbon)
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Re: Position and equipment for the next season advice [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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strangename wrote:
- Aerobars extensions : It’s a second hand bike, and the extensions have been cut quite short (315 mm) Although it might look OK on the video, having my elbows on the pads mean my hand are basically not holding anything. Last Full IM was very rainy and in order to be safe I had to move my elbows quite a bit backward in order to get a good grip with my hands. I want to buy either the basic extensions (t5+ profil design 380mm), or the Zipp Vuka with either 70mm or 110 mm stack which looks much more comfortable to me... however I don’t have the possibility to modify the incline of the rest pads so 110 might be too much. They are also quite expensive in my opinion.

- Pads: The basic pads are very slippery whenever I start sweating or the weather is rainy. F35 pads TT version appear to be a solution, but maybe you guys have better advice?

I found the OEM Profile Design T5 extensions on the Plasma 5 too short and too low for me, so I tried out three different extensions last season. I ultimately settled on some ski bends that were longer and more comfortable for me in my position, and I really love them. I would recommend testing out a few extension shapes until you find what's comfortable for you. If you find you have to move your arms/elbows around to where they wouldn't naturally want to be and you're tensing up in order to get a good grip then all that tension and fidgeting, I would suspect, can add up to some wasted energy and time loss on the bike in a half or a full.

I also swapped out the F35 pads for Profile's Ergo armrests. I absolutely love these pads. They're more adjustable than the F35s, and I feel much more stable and "locked in" to my position on them. I wasn't expecting much other than more adjustability but when I rode with them the first time I was really surprised by how much I better they felt (to me at least). Unfortunately... it looks like they're currently sold out.
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Re: Position and equipment for the next season advice [Northy] [ In reply to ]
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Northy wrote:


I found the OEM Profile Design T5 extensions on the Plasma 5 too short and too low for me, so I tried out three different extensions last season. I ultimately settled on some ski bends that were longer and more comfortable for me in my position, and I really love them. I would recommend testing out a few extension shapes until you find what's comfortable for you. If you find you have to move your arms/elbows around to where they wouldn't naturally want to be and you're tensing up in order to get a good grip then all that tension and fidgeting, I would suspect, can add up to some wasted energy and time loss on the bike in a half or a full.

I also swapped out the F35 pads for Profile's Ergo armrests. I absolutely love these pads. They're more adjustable than the F35s, and I feel much more stable and "locked in" to my position on them. I wasn't expecting much other than more adjustability but when I rode with them the first time I was really surprised by how much I better they felt (to me at least). Unfortunately... it looks like they're currently sold out.


In the end, what extensions did you buy ? Do you have the dimensions ?
I'd like to try a lot of extensions, however I dont really want to loose money/recable everytime. I'll also try to find those armrests, looks great. Thank you very much for your input.

@Pbnz: you talked about the difference made by a disc, does it mean its more interesting to keep my 38 mm front and buy a disc, than switch both wheels for a pair of 80mm ? Or does the 6 min difference takes into account a change of the front wheel for a deeper section ?

6 minutes is a lot of free time, but the cost of discs is also quite huge.
Last edited by: strangename: Sep 7, 18 0:44
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Re: Position and equipment for the next season advice [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry I modelled deep dish front and rear and not a disc in my calc's.
I have a Zipp disc as well, can put that into the model and see. It will be faster for sure, pretty much always is in most conditions. Just not sure the gap between 808's and a disc.
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Re: Position and equipment for the next season advice [pbnz] [ In reply to ]
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pbnz wrote:
Sorry I modelled deep dish front and rear and not a disc in my calc's.
I have a Zipp disc as well, can put that into the model and see. It will be faster for sure, pretty much always is in most conditions. Just not sure the gap between 808's and a disc.

Oh my bad, I thought "Deep dish" meant a disc, not deep section wheels.
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Re: Position and equipment for the next season advice [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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strangename wrote:
In the end, what extensions did you buy ? Do you have the dimensions ?
I'd like to try a lot of extensions, however I dont really want to loose money/recable everytime. I'll also try to find those armrests, looks great. Thank you very much for your input.

I tried out Zipp Vuka Evo 70 and 110, aluminum in both cases, and some carbon RedShift ski bends. I kept the RedShift and sold the Evo 70s and 110s. I might have kept the Vuka Evo 70s if it were possible to adjust the tilt on a Plasma 5, but you can't adjust the tilt (at least not without overpriced bespoke options), but I've found that I personally prefer the shape of ski bends. For me the EVO 110s added too much height such that my elbows were almost pointing into the pads rather than having my arms resting on the pads. Everyone's fit and preferences are different though, so I'd recommend getting a couple options and seeing what works best for you. Maybe a local shop that does tri fits would let you demo extensions?

The dimensions of the RedShift: 368 mm length, 100 mm rise, standard 22.2 diameter.

I wouldn't worry about swapping between extensions. It took ~5 minutes each time.

Also, if you are thinking about the Zipp Vuka Evo extensions then I'd definitely save the money and get the aluminum versions. It seems like people are frequently looking for (or selling) them in the classifieds so you'll likely be able to get back some of what you spend on whichever extensions you don't like.
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Re: Position and equipment for the next season advice [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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Did anyone else note the fact that you split 5:20 with an FT of 300W?

That is slow as molasses for the powers you should be able to push, especially given the position you’re presenting here, which is quite good.

At 0.65 you’d be at 200W. What course was this that you are that slow?
Last edited by: kileyay: Sep 7, 18 17:39
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Re: Position and equipment for the next season advice [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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Can you get any tilt in your pads? 10-15°?
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Re: Position and equipment for the next season advice [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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@Northy: Thank you very much for your opinion, the lack of a tilting option was my concern. I'll go for a couple of extensions and try which is better for me. I didnt think I would feel the lack of tilt with the evo 70mm !

@Kilelay: Yes, I did ! Thats exactly why I'm here :D . To be honnest at that FTP my split would have been more lickely to be 5:00 to 5:10 I think under normal conditions (3 weeks before I DNF a half IM and was sick all the time betwen it and the full distance, got really better only the day before...).
The ironman is not labelled but its pretty flat (700m), similar to Ironman Vichy but with 5 more kilometers. The weather was not very windy but it was very rainy for the first hour.
Also I dont train for a lot of hours ( garmin says 6.2 hours per week for the 3 sports average during the past 8 month), so I always go for a lower %of FTP than I "should".


@Fishbum: As mentionned by Northy above, unfortunatly I can't tilt them...
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