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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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Following up for posterity:

It is unlikely I will race CX on the Gravel Grinder TLR's.
For mixed terrain training and "dorking around" they're a great, all-around, dry conditions tire.

However, when doing some hot-laps, they were just too skittish for me to comfortably push them hard.
Pressures needed to be over 30 psi for sufficient sidewall support, but this made it harder to access the sideknobs.

On hard, especially grass, cornering they still hook up great (with the higher pressures). But at race speeds on shallower corners, especially loose-over-hard, they had little traction and I felt myself unwilling to go as fast as otherwise possible. This lead to a lot of "catching on" on the straights.

I think this tire design (file tread with side knobs) may work better in 33c width because the narrower tire means the sideknobs are closer to the centerline.
Additionally, as a tubular more traction would be available with the possibility of lower tire pressures.

Final Update:
This weekend sums up my experience with the Gravel Grinder: 75% of the time they're 100% great.
I finished the last 400m of a new PR on a gravel climb with a flat rear tire. Fast enough for the PR, but...

The above poster is a physiologist employed by PEARL iZUMi. However, statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of PEARL iZUMI in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
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Last edited by: xtrpickels: Sep 17, 18 8:53
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Are people running the standard Snoqualmies or the Extra Light?
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [Maddog23] [ In reply to ]
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Maddog23 wrote:
Are people running the standard Snoqualmies or the Extra Light?

I recommend the standards. You only give up ~1W per tire, and the sidewalls have more rubber. To me, the better sidewall cut resistance and lowered sealant "bleed-through" are worth that...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [spntrxi] [ In reply to ]
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that def looks low. try something more like 80 or 85 if you're going to run those g-one speeds on pavement at your weight.
There's probably less than 6 watts difference between those tires, properly set up. those speeds were on the podium at Paris-Roubaix, they are fast on pavement.
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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https://granfondo-cycling.com/the-best-gravel-tire/

This is the first real swing at it I've seen. I would really, really like to see the actual numbers, and I also want to see the sidewall puncture results, in part because at least one tire that has a reputation for being a bit fragile otherwise looks OK... and the winning tire, while it has a lot going for it, looks to have really flimsy sidewalls.
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [thumper88] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, that's quite the feature. I would also love to see numbers. It's essentially a 6-10 rating system. This is one of the first times I have ever seen WTB tires measured against anything, even a ranking. WTB makes really nice tires and I would be pretty pumped to see them roll somewhat fast. The compound can't be much different, so the size difference (36 vs 42) might be where the numbers difference mostly happens. The G-One Bite looks even more tempting from this as well.
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [dangle] [ In reply to ]
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I think its more numerically based, is the way to look at it... they use the top value achieved in each performance category as 100 percent in the bar chart, and then set the bars for rest of the tires at percentages of that.
Trying to come up vague ballpark -- and this is surely off -- I was thinking top Crr was about 20 watts, which would make each increment worth just two watts... even if I'm 50 percent off in the guess, there aren't huge differences between these, especially the top handful...
another clue is the handwritten tally sheet in the photo.... you can't really see the rows (which I assume is one per tire) or what the values are supposed to represent, but there is that whole column with numbers in the 19-20-ish range which smells like the wattage range these tires should be at.

I think one thing is pretty clear, this is not a guide to picking the right tire for Kanza, it is for gravel races that we see a lot of in, say, in the east, with hard pack, some scattered gravel, maybe a few serious patches, but then 15-20-30-40 miles of pavement.

The WTB iOS obviously super fast, but so is the compass, and I feel certain they're both too fragile, for miles and miles of the big stuff. From a practical standpoint... you may get away with it, but odds are working against you.

The Schwalbes are known to be more fragile (and THOUGHT to roll faster) than similar sized but chunkier items like the Gravel King. But that doesn't show up here very clearly and I'm thinking one reason is that they didnt include result from sidewall puncture testing. That pretty quickly could tell you what not to pick for Kanza.
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [thumper88] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for sharing.

WTB Riddler is what is on my "Dirt and Trail" wheelset, which slots in under the CX stuff in terms of grip.
Also running G-One Speeds on my "Road and Dirt" Wheelset

The two Schwalbe point out the importance of casing / protection on rolling resistance.
The G-One Bite should have been slower based on tread pattern, but the casing more than made up for it.
I wish they would have accounted for these differences, but they seem to disregard.

The above poster is a physiologist employed by PEARL iZUMi. However, statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of PEARL iZUMI in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
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Last edited by: xtrpickels: Nov 27, 18 11:47
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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G-one Speeds are freaking fast. I ran them at Battenkill, which has a lot of pavement and fast hardpack, and they had NO weaknesses.
And frankly did great in a couple of hard rock strikes... while I saw a number of people with punctured Gatorkskins, which I didnt think possible without some sort of atomic weapon.
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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Hardpack gravel, loose gravel, higher volume trail/dirt.......these are the wheelsets before you even get to all the cyclocross wheelsets. Just know that somebody in this world understands you.
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [thumper88] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for posting this. I've been tempted to try out a couple of these tires before and they provide you with some good info. I've been doing some simple testing of tires that I have and I have been a little surprised at the results. I have a G-One Allround on the back and it keeps testing just as fast as my road wheelset with 4000s and latex tubes, even at 25psi. I bought a G-One Speed 29x2.0 hoping it would fit in my stays and it did, at first, measuring 44 or 46mm on a 14mm internal rim. Unfortunately, when I set it up tubeless, it has grown to 48mm and now it will only clear the chainstays when the wheel is perfectly true and if you get out of the saddle it rubs. Which is a bummer because even with a butyl tube it felt super smooth on the back. My fork has a bit more clearance so it became my front tire and it is great as long as you don't need ANY side traction. I fell once when I tried to climb the side of a rut and it would not do it. At 25 psi it feels so much smoother and more comfortable than the Nano it replaced.
I am starting to prefer riding my 'gravel'ish bike even on the road because the G-One Speed/All-round combo seems to be (in my limited tests) as fast as gp4000s and the comfort and confidence on less that perfect pavement is no comparison in favor of the bigger tires. Especially when I ride in the dark, the bigger tires just roll over anything without pause.
I'm beginning to wonder if there is any reason to ride smaller tires outside of the bike leg of multi-sport races where high speed/aero is a factor. I really wish my converted cheap hybrid could run the 48mm tires front and back.
Can anyone report on how big the Speed or Allround get when on a wider rim? I just have old 14mm internal width rims and my Allround is 36mm wide/39 for the knobs.
Chad
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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cdw wrote:
Can anyone report on how big the Speed or Allround get when on a wider rim? I just have old 14mm internal width rims and my Allround is 36mm wide/39 for the knobs.
Chad

My G One Allround in 38/40 measures 41.5 mm on a 21 mm inner diameter Stan's rim around 30 psi after LOTS of use. The same tires measured 40.0 mm on a 22 mm inner diameter American Classic rim (less rim sidewall height on the Stans rim).
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [dangle] [ In reply to ]
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dangle wrote:
Hardpack gravel, loose gravel, higher volume trail/dirt.......these are the wheelsets before you even get to all the cyclocross wheelsets. Just know that somebody in this world understands you.


I appreciate your appreciation. Most people shake their head when they walk in my garage:
6 cx wheelsets (4 tubular),
2 "multisurface"
2 road (25c Turbo Cottons / Latex and 28c ProOne's Tubeless)
2 mountain bike sets.
Mostly i9 and Roval. Although my dirt and trail wheelset is a set of Stan's Grails that I've dented a half dozen times but still hold air. Mostly because the Switzerland Trail eats road wheels if you're going more than 10 mph.
(Good view of typical trail surface at 5:15 in this video)



(Particularly Rough Section)





More than anything, I don't like to speculate, I like to know from experience.
Even if I find something I like, I change it, just to know what something else is like.

I also have a shoe obsession...

The above poster is a physiologist employed by PEARL iZUMi. However, statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of PEARL iZUMI in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
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Last edited by: xtrpickels: Dec 7, 18 9:24
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [thumper88] [ In reply to ]
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thumper88 wrote:
G-one Speeds are freaking fast. I ran them at Battenkill, which has a lot of pavement and fast hardpack, and they had NO weaknesses.
And frankly did great in a couple of hard rock strikes... while I saw a number of people with punctured Gatorkskins, which I didnt think possible without some sort of atomic weapon.

FWIW, If speed matters I go with the 28c ProOne. I hammered it at The Belgian Waffle Ride this year (and training leading up to it). Held up great.

G-One Speed is great if you want the (little) extra volume. It's also a bit more comfortable as an all-around or training tire and I tend to use it on a more daily basis.

I will say, I do not identify as a "gravel" cyclist. This means I probably do not make traditional choices and also use product outside of the typical usage range.

For example, The thought of DK... riding hundreds of miles on endless dirt roads ... just doesn't speak to me. Belgian Waffle Ride and Grinduro do (despite being polar opposite ends of the spectrum, they have contrasting sections). I'm more of a ride some road, then hop on this singletrack to the gravel bike path then cross the field because I've never seen that road over there before kinda guy. Variety and contrast are the spice of my riding life. Or maybe I have ADHD and can't cope with one surface for more than 30 miles...

The above poster is a physiologist employed by PEARL iZUMi. However, statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of PEARL iZUMI in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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I'm looking for a BWR tire for 2019.

First time doing the race. I've pretty much ruled out my CX bike as 42x11/36 is not enough gearing.
My roadie should just fit 28C tires.
Was thinking a Challenge Paris Roubaix.... but maybe something like the Pro One?

I've ridden gravel on 23C Conti 4000's before without issue and I'm a pretty good bike handler.
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
I'm looking for a BWR tire for 2019.

First time doing the race. I've pretty much ruled out my CX bike as 42x11/36 is not enough gearing.
My roadie should just fit 28C tires.
Was thinking a Challenge Paris Roubaix.... but maybe something like the Pro One?

I've ridden gravel on 23C Conti 4000's before without issue and I'm a pretty good bike handler.


Check the thread on The BWR. Great advice from Tom and others in there. BWR SetUp Thread

I know Tom's a fan of the Challenge tires with a Latex tube. I'm sure they ride great. I'm used to tubeless and so went with the Pro One.

I wouldn't go smaller than 28c. Given the amount of road, I thought this was a good choice. Other will take a different approach. If I were doing the Wafer, with a higher dirt to road ratio, I might have gone with something a little bigger. I'm a good bike handler (relatively speaking, the Junior CX racers I coach crush me), so I wasn't worried about the 28c on the dirt sections and made the choice to go to the front of the group on the dirt because I both had the speed and it allowed me to pick my lines and not slam into unseen rocks. Perhaps I was lucky this year and next year I'll get a half dozen flats...

The above poster is a physiologist employed by PEARL iZUMi. However, statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of PEARL iZUMI in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
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Last edited by: xtrpickels: Dec 7, 18 9:32
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [dangle] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. Unfortunately, they don't make a Speed between the 1.5/38mm and the 2.0/50mm. A 1.75/44-45 would max out my frame clearance and provide some more volume. If I could make my ultimate tire, I would have a 45mm G-One with Speed center knobs and Allround side knobs. That tire would take care of about 90 percent of my riding and really add a bit of control when I venture off the beaten path into pseudo-mtb territory. I may try to Resolute next to see how that fits the bill.
Chad
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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FWIW, I'm only 135lbs, so I don't need the same suspension as much bigger riders.

My wife is doing the wafer, and my current tire of choice for her will be Strada Bianca 36C tires on her gravel bike. She currently has Maxxis Rambler's, but I think those are a bit knobby for a semi-road event.
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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"Thanks. Unfortunately, they don't make a Speed between the 1.5/38mm and the 2.0/50mm. A 1.75/44-45 would max out my frame clearance and provide some more volume. If I could make my ultimate tire, I would have a 45mm G-One with Speed center knobs and Allround side knobs. That tire would take care of about 90 percent of my riding and really add a bit of control when I venture off the beaten path into pseudo-mtb territory. I may try to Resolute next to see how that fits the bill.
Chad "


Just based on that Gran Fondo magazine test, it sounds like you're making smart choice. The Resolute sounds about as close to the ideal version of the Speed you describe as anything out there. Sounds if anything slightly faster than any Schwalbe that isn't Liteskin, although it does sound a little fragile. Prob comparable to the Liteskin in that regard.
Last edited by: thumper88: Dec 7, 18 9:43
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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cdw wrote:
Thanks. Unfortunately, they don't make a Speed between the 1.5/38mm and the 2.0/50mm. A 1.75/44-45 would max out my frame clearance and provide some more volume. If I could make my ultimate tire, I would have a 45mm G-One with Speed center knobs and Allround side knobs. That tire would take care of about 90 percent of my riding and really add a bit of control when I venture off the beaten path into pseudo-mtb territory. I may try to Resolute next to see how that fits the bill.
Chad

The WTB Riddler 45 sounds kinda like what you're talking about.

I wouldn't consider the Allround to have 'side knobs' though. The 38/40 Allround on a modern rim with a 23 mm inner should get you really close to 43 mm and let you play around with the low pressures more since you won't have to worry about the side folding over as much as you would on a 14 mm inner diameter rim.
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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Oh man, I think those numbers match mine pretty well except I'm down to only one tubular CX wheelset since I have found a couple tubeless combos that I can't burp in the low 20 psi range no matter how hard I try. I built a rack that holds 10 wheelsets and there's still a disc and H3+ leaned up against the wall.

Not sure how much I would enjoy anything but a mountain bike on that Switzerland Trail. With the scenery, I would want to be able to look up once in a while.
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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cdw wrote:
Thanks. Unfortunately, they don't make a Speed between the 1.5/38mm and the 2.0/50mm. A 1.75/44-45 would max out my frame clearance and provide some more volume. If I could make my ultimate tire, I would have a 45mm G-One with Speed center knobs and Allround side knobs. That tire would take care of about 90 percent of my riding and really add a bit of control when I venture off the beaten path into pseudo-mtb territory. I may try to Resolute next to see how that fits the bill.
Chad

Just ride an Allround on the trainer for a bit...

The above poster is a physiologist employed by PEARL iZUMi. However, statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of PEARL iZUMI in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
FWIW, I'm only 135lbs, so I don't need the same suspension as much bigger riders.

My wife is doing the wafer, and my current tire of choice for her will be Strada Bianca 36C tires on her gravel bike. She currently has Maxxis Rambler's, but I think those are a bit knobby for a semi-road event.

I think this sounds like an appropriate plan, especially if she is comfortable / confident on them.

The above poster is a physiologist employed by PEARL iZUMi. However, statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of PEARL iZUMI in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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That would probably work...except that I don't own a trainer. :)
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Re: Paging Tom A...Gravel Tire Rolling Resistance??? [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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xtrpickels wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:
FWIW, I'm only 135lbs, so I don't need the same suspension as much bigger riders.

My wife is doing the wafer, and my current tire of choice for her will be Strada Bianca 36C tires on her gravel bike. She currently has Maxxis Rambler's, but I think those are a bit knobby for a semi-road event.


I think this sounds like an appropriate plan, especially if she is comfortable / confident on them.

She is not a confident rider off pavement.
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