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Real Estate Question
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So I’ve got a question based partly on some hypothetical scenarios, but that I was having with someone about some upcoming life decisions of several people that I know.

I live in Spokane, WA. The rental market is booming. The housing market is booming.

Prices for both are through the roof, the median sale price of a home in the city has gone up roughly 30,000 dollars from May 2017-May2018. Even at the height of the boom right before the recession, Trulia is showing a median home sale price of 176,000, and this year it’s 220,000. Even accounting for inflation this 176,000 in 2008 dollars is roughly 206,000 in 2018 dollars, showing a 15,000 dollar increase in price.

Rent shows roughly the same story. Data on trulia is more limited, only showing a 1 year history, but for all properties, rent has increased from a median rent of $1,200/month to $1,375/month. Spokesman.com , our local news source, reported in winter of 2017 that Spokane has experienced an average increase of $102/month in that previous year, and that at the time it was the fastest 12month increase in average rental rates in the past 10 years.

Soooo...

Given all of the above, and I encourage more research (as always), let’s look at persons A and B.

Person A and B each live in an $850/month apartment, at exactly 30 percent of their income.

Person A stays in their apartment and continues to pay rent, facing potentially annually climbing rates with each new 12 month lease they sign.

Person B bails out of the apartment at the end of their lease, and purchases a house, even though we are at the peak of the housing prices and values in this area. Let's say that they find a cheap house where their mortgage and related, constant, monthly costs total $800/month.

Who is making the right choice?
Last edited by: Koala Bear: Aug 16, 18 20:45
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Re: Real Estate Question [Koala Bear] [ In reply to ]
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There's no "right choice." They're both, on face value, reasonable decisions. And there's no way to guess which decision will come out ahead. That's playing the game of market timing.

I'd say if the job and life situation is stable and tied to Spokane, go B.

If things are still volatile, go A.

Or conversely, don't make the home purchase just as a short-term investment play. And don't pay rent forever as a long-term resident.
Last edited by: trail: Aug 16, 18 21:39
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Re: Real Estate Question [Koala Bear] [ In reply to ]
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Can't know which is "best", primarily because you can't predict the "top" of the market. If you are staying for an extended period in the Spokane area, buying will usually beat renting, since home ownership is often best considered as a hedge against property inflation. Been lots of threads on buying vs. renting. Job stability, not buying "too much house", likelihood of appreciation, etc. all enter into it.
Last edited by: oldandslow: Aug 16, 18 22:12
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Re: Real Estate Question [Koala Bear] [ In reply to ]
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Person C who goes and lives with parents! ;)

Chris
*********************
“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”
― Hunter S. Thompson,
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Re: Real Estate Question [Koala Bear] [ In reply to ]
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I think the most important question here is are you still planning to get married?

What’s happening there? Sounds like you want to buy a house.
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Re: Real Estate Question [Koala Bear] [ In reply to ]
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Koala Bear wrote:

Given all of the above, and I encourage more research (as always), let’s look at persons A and B.

Person A and B each live in an $850/month apartment, at exactly 30 percent of their income.

Person A stays in their apartment and continues to pay rent, facing potentially annually climbing rates with each new 12 month lease they sign.

Person B bails out of the apartment at the end of their lease, and purchases a house, even though we are at the peak of the housing prices and values in this area. Let's say that they find a cheap house where their mortgage and related, constant, monthly costs total $800/month.

Who is making the right choice?

Good advice already in this thread. You might also look at this rent vs. buy calculator and the recent mortgage affordability thread.

In your calculation, don't forget to add in insurance, property taxes, etc for total costs vs. rent.

Having read some of your previous threads, hope this doesn't sound patronizing, but does person B have sufficient emergency funds after a home purchase? Spending 30% of gross income on housing in my opinion is a stretch, not impossible, but could cause some cash flow issues when the large unknown expense arises.
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Re: Real Estate Question [Koala Bear] [ In reply to ]
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You don’t know houses are at their peak. Look at California. I bet many people for years have said well that can’t go any higher. That worked out well.

You may get some decrease because of rates but with the percentage increase your seeing it’s probably not going to be noticable.

Median home prices in Denver has gone from 210k dec 2011 to 284k in dec 2014 to 387k dec 2017 and we’re still rolling up.

If the market can support it you’re not at a peak. When we sold in 2015 we had 70 showings over the weekend and 15 offers. My understanding is that hasn’t slowed down.

You need to look at home inventory days, and how long houses are staying on the market. If they’re getting sold in only a couple days with multiple offers you probably aren’t at a peak.
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Re: Real Estate Question [Koala Bear] [ In reply to ]
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Point is likely moot, if the median prices are what you say they are, then you are not likely to find a house for $800/month including insurance, taxes, PMI, etc. And if you do find a house in Spocompton for $800 a month it is going to be in a neighborhood that you won't survive more than a few years without getting shot in. So really doesn't matter either way.
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Re: Real Estate Question [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Grant.Reuter wrote:
You don’t know houses are at their peak. Look at California. I bet many people for years have said well that can’t go any higher. That worked out well.

You may get some decrease because of rates but with the percentage increase your seeing it’s probably not going to be noticable.

Median home prices in Denver has gone from 210k dec 2011 to 284k in dec 2014 to 387k dec 2017 and we’re still rolling up.

If the market can support it you’re not at a peak. When we sold in 2015 we had 70 showings over the weekend and 15 offers. My understanding is that hasn’t slowed down.

You need to look at home inventory days, and how long houses are staying on the market. If they’re getting sold in only a couple days with multiple offers you probably aren’t at a peak.
This.


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DISH is how we do it.
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Re: Real Estate Question [Koala Bear] [ In reply to ]
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I know Spokane and it's nowhere near peak.

But to answer your question, can't you make money from renting rooms in your house? So B?

I am an outdoor home improvement contractor who enjoys biking and running. My Blog
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Re: Real Estate Question [A-A-Ron] [ In reply to ]
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A-A-Ron wrote:
Point is likely moot, if the median prices are what you say they are, then you are not likely to find a house for $800/month including insurance, taxes, PMI, etc. And if you do find a house in Spocompton for $800 a month it is going to be in a neighborhood that you won't survive more than a few years without getting shot in. So really doesn't matter either way.
Well, I’ll give you credit to that answer, to an extent. The specific situation I had in mind when I typed person B’s answer is actually a little more fortunate than that. “Completely hypothetical Person B” knows the right people, who would buy a foreclosure in Spokane Valley or the upper south hill, do a complete renovation on it (with a valid contractors license, and up to code), and sell it to Person B at a price that would be equal to or less than the price of rent for Person A’s apartment.
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Re: Real Estate Question [topshelf] [ In reply to ]
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topshelf wrote:
I know Spokane and it's nowhere near peak.

But to answer your question, can't you make money from renting rooms in your house? So B?
So you would say that with Spokane not being near peak, it’s not a terrible time to buy? Maybe not the best time in the world, but not horrible?
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Re: Real Estate Question [Koala Bear] [ In reply to ]
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Lots of good advice, but here is the thing about B: home ownership has an absolute shitload of hidden costs, even under the umbrella of "improvements" that renting simply does not have.

I've made a lot of $$ in real estate, but never by buying at the top--or anywhere near to it. Are we at the top now? I don't know....in LA/SF area I don't get the market now (some friends just sold their not-good-neighborhood Pasadena 1750 sf home for $850k with literally 20 offers up to the high point, after being absolutely buried in it when buying in 2006--and I'm thrilled that they got out from under--but seriously, that house in a similar neighborhood anywhere other than a blue state metro area is $200k.

The other thing about B, or A: we have been on a historic run in the stock market, but it has definitely slowed a bit of late. 5 years ago I would have advised to put $$ into the market & rent, as interest rates were (actually still somewhat are) cheap, and the market was on a once-in-a-lifetime rebound, and the $$ put into the stock market vs 90% of most US real estate markets would have been a no brainer.......but right now I don't have a good feel for either.

Everything comes to an end, and buying a house--for most--isn't strictly a financial decision. If it is for you....rent.

____________
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." John Rogers
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Re: Real Estate Question [Koala Bear] [ In reply to ]
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It depends-

Who is getting more pussy?
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Re: Real Estate Question [mopdahl] [ In reply to ]
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mopdahl wrote:
Lots of good advice, but here is the thing about B: home ownership has an absolute shitload of hidden costs, even under the umbrella of "improvements" that renting simply does not have.

I've made a lot of $$ in real estate, but never by buying at the top--or anywhere near to it. Are we at the top now? I don't know....in LA/SF area I don't get the market now (some friends just sold their not-good-neighborhood Pasadena 1750 sf home for $850k with literally 20 offers up to the high point, after being absolutely buried in it when buying in 2006--and I'm thrilled that they got out from under--but seriously, that house in a similar neighborhood anywhere other than a blue state metro area is $200k.

The other thing about B, or A: we have been on a historic run in the stock market, but it has definitely slowed a bit of late. 5 years ago I would have advised to put $$ into the market & rent, as interest rates were (actually still somewhat are) cheap, and the market was on a once-in-a-lifetime rebound, and the $$ put into the stock market vs 90% of most US real estate markets would have been a no brainer.......but right now I don't have a good feel for either.

Everything comes to an end, and buying a house--for most--isn't strictly a financial decision. If it is for you....rent.
Whoever bought your friends house probably “got a deal” since the Chinese are buying up the joint with cash. One bedroom condos (900 sq ft and smaller) are selling for $450k + in the area.


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DISH is how we do it.
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Re: Real Estate Question [Koala Bear] [ In reply to ]
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I'm saying go with option B. If you had the money, go buy a property. You can probably make some money by renting the available bedrooms

I am an outdoor home improvement contractor who enjoys biking and running. My Blog
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