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Re: So...Tour mag tests disc brakes vs. rim... [elf6c] [ In reply to ]
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elf6c wrote:
Every other segment of cycling has gone disc and exactly none of them have gone back. Mtn, cross, gravel, adventure, endurance road and now just regular racing bikes.

Yes, this is true for the most part (you can still find some rim brake bikes here and there, more at the low end of the market... but some of the high-end i.e. Richard Sachs). But I think the important thing to note is that this isn't purely due to superior function of disc brakes. High quality, well-engineered, properly installed and maintained rim brakes can work really, really well - and are usually really easy to live/travel with. But there are definitely some really bad rim brakes that have given some people a bad taste in their mouth.

It's a marketing problem. Manufacturers aren't going to waste time and resources developing technology for a segment (rim brakes) that they're fairly certain that the industry at large has given up on (regardless of whether the reasons for doing so are good or bad). They don't want to be seen as low-tech luddites. The bigger the company, the more this drives their decision-making. They're doing the math and want to make money. I think that some people miss this, and assume that the manufacturers are moving to discs (or whatever the new technology is) ONLY because it functions better or is easier to maintain for all cyclists in all situations.

The point I've been trying to make is that there are some people (me included) for whom the extra work and travel problems of discs on road bikes aren't worth the hassle, because they choose to ride with a very good rim brake setup, and don't have a riding style or other factors that make discs "necessary". I'm a long-time mechanic. I can make discs work well (short of the frequent product recalls we seem to encounter). I just get tired of spending a lot of time on it - and I don't want to lose the choice of buying rim brake equipment in the future. If someone else wants to buy a road disc bike, I'm not holding them back. It's just a bit frustrating to see a lack of education on what some of the costs can be (i.e. time, more cost with pad changes and bleeds, etc) for the uneducated beginner. I hope the technology can improve to become super reliable, quiet, and low maintenance... I'm definitely leaving the door open for that to happen.
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Re: So...Tour mag tests disc brakes vs. rim... [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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gregk wrote:
elf6c wrote:
Every other segment of cycling has gone disc and exactly none of them have gone back. Mtn, cross, gravel, adventure, endurance road and now just regular racing bikes.


Yes, this is true for the most part (you can still find some rim brake bikes here and there, more at the low end of the market... but some of the high-end i.e. Richard Sachs). But I think the important thing to note is that this isn't purely due to superior function of disc brakes. High quality, well-engineered, properly installed and maintained rim brakes can work really, really well - and are usually really easy to live/travel with. But there are definitely some really bad rim brakes that have given some people a bad taste in their mouth.

It's a marketing problem. Manufacturers aren't going to waste time and resources developing technology for a segment (rim brakes) that they're fairly certain that the industry at large has given up on (regardless of whether the reasons for doing so are good or bad). They don't want to be seen as low-tech luddites. The bigger the company, the more this drives their decision-making. They're doing the math and want to make money. I think that some people miss this, and assume that the manufacturers are moving to discs (or whatever the new technology is) ONLY because it functions better or is easier to maintain for all cyclists in all situations.

The point I've been trying to make is that there are some people (me included) for whom the extra work and travel problems of discs on road bikes aren't worth the hassle, because they choose to ride with a very good rim brake setup, and don't have a riding style or other factors that make discs "necessary". I'm a long-time mechanic. I can make discs work well (short of the frequent product recalls we seem to encounter). I just get tired of spending a lot of time on it - and I don't want to lose the choice of buying rim brake equipment in the future. If someone else wants to buy a road disc bike, I'm not holding them back. It's just a bit frustrating to see a lack of education on what some of the costs can be (i.e. time, more cost with pad changes and bleeds, etc) for the uneducated beginner. I hope the technology can improve to become super reliable, quiet, and low maintenance... I'm definitely leaving the door open for that to happen.

I'm with Mr. Kopecky ^^^^

Well said.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: So...Tour mag tests disc brakes vs. rim... [BBB1975] [ In reply to ]
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BBB1975 wrote:


Slowtwitch isn’t the bike market as a whole. Most folks don’t want to be bothered with which color Swiss Stop pads work best with their new carbon wheels - they just want to ride and have a bike that works well and looks cool. From a customer perception standpoint, disc give them that.


I saw this quote today about disc pad choices for road use and it reminded me of your comment above:

Quote:
The trades off you make are heat range & low compress-ability / better modulation vs cold initial bite . Braking turns kinetic energy into heat, so the more you use the brakes the more heat your pads will have. The pads have a limited temp range, with metallic brakes requiring a lot of heat to start working well.

Flats = Resin for low brake temps and good initial bite (braking power without heating up pads and without a lot of lever input).
Hills = move to semi and full metallic for repeated braking performance and modulation (fine control at limit of braking)


So yeah...now they just have to try to figure out which pad types work best for their purposes (i.e. resin, semi-metallic, metallic) where their trade-offs are good wear and wet performance but noisy vs. quiet(er) with worse wet performance and fast wear...and then, once they're contaminated, they all suck noise-wise and performance-wise. The questions/bother about pads aren't going to stop...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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