Weird title, right? Oly/Sprint tri yesterday, swim course went into a narrow cove in one section and several athletes got out of the lake, ran on the beach, then re-entered the lake several hundred yards away. I've heard this is legal, but how is it not course cutting? Can someone please explain the logic to me?
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Re: Running the swim [treyedr]
[ In reply to ]
treyedr wrote:
Weird title, right? Oly/Sprint tri yesterday, swim course went into a narrow cove in one section and several athletes got out of the lake, ran on the beach, then re-entered the lake several hundred yards away. I've heard this is legal, but how is it not course cutting? Can someone please explain the logic to me?Does the rulebook for the race state that's okay? All races I've done where they mention there is some shallow water they say you can stand up and walk in the water but you can't go onto dryland and run.
Re: Running the swim [treyedr]
[ In reply to ]
treyedr wrote:
Weird title, right? Oly/Sprint tri yesterday, swim course went into a narrow cove in one section and several athletes got out of the lake, ran on the beach, then re-entered the lake several hundred yards away. I've heard this is legal, but how is it not course cutting? Can someone please explain the logic to me?Is this a USAT sanctioned race? If so, they are in violation of two rules:
3.4a. Entire Course. Participants must cover the prescribed course in its entirety. It is the participant’s responsibility to know the course. Any violation of this section, even if no advantage is gained, shall result in a variable time penalty, unless the Head Referee in his sole discretion determines that (i) the violation was substantial and resulted in an unfair time advantage, or (ii) the violation constituted endangerment under Section 3.4(l). In the event the Head Referee makes such a determination, the penalty shall be disqualification.
This rule states "Participants must cover the prescribed course in its entirety" running on the beach beside the swim course is not completing the prescribed "swim" course in its entirety.
3.4e. Re-entry. Upon leaving the course, a participant shall re-enter the course and continue at the same point of departure. Any violation of this Section shall result in a variable time penalty, unless the Head Referee in his sole discretion determines that (i) the violation was substantial and resulted in an unfair time advantage, or (ii) the violation constituted endangerment under Section 3.4(l), in which case the penalty shall be disqualification.
This rule states "Upon leaving the course, a participant shall re-enter the course and continue at the same point of departure".
Re: Running the swim [HandHeartCrown]
[ In reply to ]
3.4e was the rule I was thinking of.
Leaving the course and re-entering at a different point
Leaving the course and re-entering at a different point
Re: Running the swim [jaretj]
[ In reply to ]
I agree, as described this sounds like a clear violation of either or both of the above cited rules. There is however a small amount of grey area as it pertains to defining “the course.” I believe I recall an example of an RD disqualifying a few people for swimming maybe 15 m off the buoy line to wade/run through shallow water near shore, though technically within the lake. On the other hand there is a (medium sized) locally produced race in Washington where the RD is not shy about pointing out that the last ~250m of a swim course is wade-able. This is a course shared by half, Olympic, and sprint races. So moral of the story is that the rules support dq for trying to gain an advantage by not swimming the swim, but leave a little wiggle room otherwise.
Re: Running the swim [HandHeartCrown]
[ In reply to ]
HandHeartCrown wrote:
treyedr wrote:
Weird title, right? Oly/Sprint tri yesterday, swim course went into a narrow cove in one section and several athletes got out of the lake, ran on the beach, then re-entered the lake several hundred yards away. I've heard this is legal, but how is it not course cutting? Can someone please explain the logic to me?Is this a USAT sanctioned race? If so, they are in violation of two rules:
3.4a. Entire Course. Participants must cover the prescribed course in its entirety. It is the participant’s responsibility to know the course. Any violation of this section, even if no advantage is gained, shall result in a variable time penalty, unless the Head Referee in his sole discretion determines that (i) the violation was substantial and resulted in an unfair time advantage, or (ii) the violation constituted endangerment under Section 3.4(l). In the event the Head Referee makes such a determination, the penalty shall be disqualification.
This rule states "Participants must cover the prescribed course in its entirety" running on the beach beside the swim course is not completing the prescribed "swim" course in its entirety.
3.4e. Re-entry. Upon leaving the course, a participant shall re-enter the course and continue at the same point of departure. Any violation of this Section shall result in a variable time penalty, unless the Head Referee in his sole discretion determines that (i) the violation was substantial and resulted in an unfair time advantage, or (ii) the violation constituted endangerment under Section 3.4(l), in which case the penalty shall be disqualification.
This rule states "Upon leaving the course, a participant shall re-enter the course and continue at the same point of departure".
Whose italics are those?
How is the course marked? Are there marked limits?
In ocean swimming tradition, running along the beach is ok. Make it around the buoys in the prescribed way is generally all you need to do
Re: Running the swim [treyedr]
[ In reply to ]
I went from 3rd to 8th on that swim as I watched people out run me on the swim. Annoying. Oh well.
Re: Running the swim [treyedr]
[ In reply to ]
treyedr wrote:
Weird title, right? Oly/Sprint tri yesterday, swim course went into a narrow cove in one section and several athletes got out of the lake, ran on the beach, then re-entered the lake several hundred yards away. I've heard this is legal, but how is it not course cutting? Can someone please explain the logic to me?Oh, havn´t heard that one... but do know this:
"Swimming" in a pond around a castle... actually very nice if only there would have been water :-)
Rumpled wrote:
HandHeartCrown wrote:
treyedr wrote:
Weird title, right? Oly/Sprint tri yesterday, swim course went into a narrow cove in one section and several athletes got out of the lake, ran on the beach, then re-entered the lake several hundred yards away. I've heard this is legal, but how is it not course cutting? Can someone please explain the logic to me?Is this a USAT sanctioned race? If so, they are in violation of two rules:
3.4a. Entire Course. Participants must cover the prescribed course in its entirety. It is the participant’s responsibility to know the course. Any violation of this section, even if no advantage is gained, shall result in a variable time penalty, unless the Head Referee in his sole discretion determines that (i) the violation was substantial and resulted in an unfair time advantage, or (ii) the violation constituted endangerment under Section 3.4(l). In the event the Head Referee makes such a determination, the penalty shall be disqualification.
This rule states "Participants must cover the prescribed course in its entirety" running on the beach beside the swim course is not completing the prescribed "swim" course in its entirety.
3.4e. Re-entry. Upon leaving the course, a participant shall re-enter the course and continue at the same point of departure. Any violation of this Section shall result in a variable time penalty, unless the Head Referee in his sole discretion determines that (i) the violation was substantial and resulted in an unfair time advantage, or (ii) the violation constituted endangerment under Section 3.4(l), in which case the penalty shall be disqualification.
This rule states "Upon leaving the course, a participant shall re-enter the course and continue at the same point of departure".
Whose italics are those?
How is the course marked? Are there marked limits?
In ocean swimming tradition, running along the beach is ok. Make it around the buoys in the prescribed way is generally all you need to do
The italics are from the USAT Commissioner of Officials. They are intended to show how the rules are interpreted by the USAT Officials (again, if this was a USAT sanctioned race).
I can't answer how the course was marked. Every race I've competed in over the past 25 years has had some sort of turn buoy or sight bouy, even point-to-point swims.
Walking is explicitly allowed as long as it's following the prescribed course. It would have to be otherwise beach starts and exits could be a challenge.