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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
JoeO wrote:
Every explanation you managed to come up with basically amounts to "She has a problem." When you begin your argument by assuming the conclusion, you generally manage to end up there.


I don't think I assumed the conclusion, but I did get to that over the duration of the rest of the ride

JoeO wrote:
One person's "minor crap" is another person's major crap. I don't see a big mystery in a woman not wanting a man to follow her in any situation but regardless, there's no need to puzzle over it. Just accept that not everyone views the world as you do and move on.


Reasonable. I'll sometimes say to my wife, that if she's not seeing something my way, it's because she doesn't understand the situation. Ya, that usually goes over well :-)

That, my friend, is when you hop on your bicycle and ride like the wind!

"Aquabike is a swim then sleep session on aerobars ...."
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [ntc] [ In reply to ]
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ntc wrote:
40-Tude wrote:

5. Person that's in the draft really bears more of the risk/danger in a crash, so she shouldn't really have been concerned about this. But maybe she didn't realize this?


Last week someone hopped on my wheel on a bike path with a decent amount of other users . Someone's dog unexpectedly jumps in my line and I almost wreck cause I can't just slam on my brakes due to the anon dbag with unknown skills unannounced on my wheel. My friend also broke his femur and clavicle being taken out by some dipshit from behind. So pardon me if I'm the asshole that politely asks you not to ride my wheel.

My point there was that when drafting, people worry about wheels touching, and going down. But if wheels touch, it's the rear rider that usually takes the brunt of it, rarely the leading rider.

Of course, a sudden wayward dog, squirrel, deer, mountain lion, pedestrian and other forms of wildlife present an emergency handling risk -- but that can happen regardless of drafting or not. And if I'm on someone's wheel, I'm still scanning ahead for potholes, intersections, and other risks myself (as should anyone in a draft). And if I'm in front, I point stuff out.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [FatandSlow] [ In reply to ]
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... BTW, I don't really buy into the notion that a friendly word or chat *needs* to happen to get an invitation to sit-in. Sure, it's a nice gesture, and it can announce your presence so you're not sneaking up on someone and surprising them. But it shouldn't be needed, and doesn't really work in various situations -- some recent examples that come to mind -

1. Trying for conversation from the rear can be hard to hear. Someone coming up behind me saying something to me, is way more intrusive and difficult to hold. If you're going to say something, better to pull alongside, ride side by side then have a chat. But now it's not a situation of drafting/sharing a wheel - but being social. I've found conversation has always been better *after* wheel's have been shared, not before.

2. Southbound rides on 9W back to NYC. Rolling hills aren't bad on the way out, but they always seem tougher on the way back. Shared many a wheel with stranger's without a word b/c we all knew we're suffering and just wanted to get back w/out anything needing to be said. Not having conversation also makes it easier -- if someone falls off the back there's no obligation to wait up for him/her :-)

3. Recon ride up Mt Ventoux, a few years ago.... Possible language barriers preventing conversation, but also not needed - just a tacit approval across cultures of how to get up that mountain.

4. Impromptu hard/fast pace lines - where effort is hard enough to not really have any conversation. Just an elbow flick, and a rotation through. If I flick an elbow and someone pulls through, volumes have already been said. Turns into a beautiful thing, of what were 4-5 solo riders now humming along w/out any words needed.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
ntc wrote:
40-Tude wrote:

5. Person that's in the draft really bears more of the risk/danger in a crash, so she shouldn't really have been concerned about this. But maybe she didn't realize this?


Last week someone hopped on my wheel on a bike path with a decent amount of other users . Someone's dog unexpectedly jumps in my line and I almost wreck cause I can't just slam on my brakes due to the anon dbag with unknown skills unannounced on my wheel. My friend also broke his femur and clavicle being taken out by some dipshit from behind. So pardon me if I'm the asshole that politely asks you not to ride my wheel.

My point there was that when drafting, people worry about wheels touching, and going down. But if wheels touch, it's the rear rider that usually takes the brunt of it, rarely the leading rider.

Of course, a sudden wayward dog, squirrel, deer, mountain lion, pedestrian and other forms of wildlife present an emergency handling risk -- but that can happen regardless of drafting or not. And if I'm on someone's wheel, I'm still scanning ahead for potholes, intersections, and other risks myself (as should anyone in a draft). And if I'm in front, I point stuff out.

And my point is if I'm unwinding coming home from work i dont want to have to worry about calling out to a random dude I dont want riding with me. And sure, in ideal conditions touching wheels brings down the rear guy. Have you ever actually ridden ideal conditions while surrounded by traffic, debris, and pedestrians? My example I could've easily stopped solo but since I had some asshat on my wheel I had to do something more sketchy so he didn't crash me out. I think it is interesting how personally you are taking someone politely asking you to not follow.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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I'd biked for years before becoming a triathlete who trained to numbers. The only things that would bug me about a stranger sucking wheel are:
- dude / person is creepy and giving me a hinky feeling. This could potentially be linked to location.
- person is annoying somehow: clearing their throat all the time, their bike squeeks, wants to chat and I don't, something like that.
- I'm gassy and I just don't want to fart all over them.

Sure, if you take my wheel out or cross mine without my knowing you're there, I wouldn't like that. But I'm usually riding a busy multi-use trail or an organized group ride where expectation is, other riders will be in close proximity. I guess I'm saying, my wheel is probably up for random sucking, should you find it. But just like sharing a lane at the pool, you gotta let me know you're there!

To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
ntc wrote:
40-Tude wrote:

5. Person that's in the draft really bears more of the risk/danger in a crash, so she shouldn't really have been concerned about this. But maybe she didn't realize this?


Last week someone hopped on my wheel on a bike path with a decent amount of other users . Someone's dog unexpectedly jumps in my line and I almost wreck cause I can't just slam on my brakes due to the anon dbag with unknown skills unannounced on my wheel. My friend also broke his femur and clavicle being taken out by some dipshit from behind. So pardon me if I'm the asshole that politely asks you not to ride my wheel.


My point there was that when drafting, people worry about wheels touching, and going down. But if wheels touch, it's the rear rider that usually takes the brunt of it, rarely the leading rider.

Of course, a sudden wayward dog, squirrel, deer, mountain lion, pedestrian and other forms of wildlife present an emergency handling risk -- but that can happen regardless of drafting or not. And if I'm on someone's wheel, I'm still scanning ahead for potholes, intersections, and other risks myself (as should anyone in a draft). And if I'm in front, I point stuff out.

I haven't ski'd since high school. But, in skiing and most other sports........the person in FRONT has the right of way. The person behind is responsible for behaving safely.

Same here. If someone is polite and asks, I'll ask them who they ride with. If they don't have an answer, you're not sitting on my wheel. Go learn on the local C or B ride how to ride a line. You're not crashing with me.

If you say nothing, I'll find the first pitch I can and drop you like a rock in a lake. I'm not tiny, but skinny enough you'd need to be a Cat 3 or so to keep up over a hill.

It's only happened once long ago. I don't typically ride things local roadies enjoy. They enjoy endless country roads with just a few rollers.

I like sticking to my lumpy training routes in town. I enjoy 75ft per mile or more.

Most roadies here take a pass on stuff like that. I've never gotten someone to tag along for a ride like that. It's not conducive to group riding due to variations in weight and ability. Mostly weight.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Fuller] [ In reply to ]
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Fuller wrote:
Some women are quite understandably very hinky about one on one encounters with men in any situation. I owned a business where I would do in house sales calls to sell remodeling services. Most of my customers were women and I would go out of my way to make sure they were comfortable. Still I recall one woman who would come outside in the garage to talk to me but when she went back inside the deadbolt would clunk very audibly. I thought it was weird but I wasn't offended, I just finished up my quote in the garage.

But you would think that most folks out for a ride would at least be polite to other riders in the absence of any reason to be otherwise.

FIFY

Plus: kudos for not getting offended by that customer. Many dudes would've taken it personally, even though it has nothing to do with them as an individual.

Regarding 40-tude and the woman who asked him not to draft: it could be because she is female, it could also be because you were in her personal space , that you were uninvited, that you were a stranger, or that she prefers to ride alone.

Regardless, if you try to force your presence on someone who doesn't want you there, for whatever reason, you shouldn't be offended if they ask you to not be there.

I'm not saying you can't share the bike path, just don't sit inches away from someone who doesn't want you there.

Strangers who jump on my wheel get politely asked to not do that as well. If I don't know you, I don't want you anywhere near enough to cause me to crash.

Nice bikes and fancy kit only means someone can afford those things, not that someone has good handling skills. People crash expensive sports cars all the time because they don't know how to drive. Nice bikes are no different.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [davejustdave] [ In reply to ]
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davejustdave wrote:
Fuller wrote:
Some women are quite understandably very hinky about one on one encounters with men in any situation. I owned a business where I would do in house sales calls to sell remodeling services. Most of my customers were women and I would go out of my way to make sure they were comfortable. Still I recall one woman who would come outside in the garage to talk to me but when she went back inside the deadbolt would clunk very audibly. I thought it was weird but I wasn't offended, I just finished up my quote in the garage.

But you would think that most folks out for a ride would at least be polite to other riders in the absence of any reason to be otherwise.


FIFY

Plus: kudos for not getting offended by that customer. Many dudes would've taken it personally, even though it has nothing to do with them as an individual.

Regarding 40-tude and the woman who asked him not to draft: it could be because she is female, it could also be because you were in her personal space , that you were uninvited, that you were a stranger, or that she prefers to ride alone.

Regardless, if you try to force your presence on someone who doesn't want you there, for whatever reason, you shouldn't be offended if they ask you to not be there.

I'm not saying you can't share the bike path, just don't sit inches away from someone who doesn't want you there.

Strangers who jump on my wheel get politely asked to not do that as well. If I don't know you, I don't want you anywhere near enough to cause me to crash.

Nice bikes and fancy kit only means someone can afford those things, not that someone has good handling skills. People crash expensive sports cars all the time because they don't know how to drive. Nice bikes are no different.

Do you guys drive cars at all? Do you freak out if there are cars in the lanes next to you are behind you?

If you don't like that someone is behind you, pull over and stop. Just keep in mind that eventually someone else will come along. It's not like the roads are private and that we have the right to tell people not to use them when we are on them. Just more symptoms of an entitled society.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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mcmetal wrote:
davejustdave wrote:
Fuller wrote:
Some women are quite understandably very hinky about one on one encounters with men in any situation. I owned a business where I would do in house sales calls to sell remodeling services. Most of my customers were women and I would go out of my way to make sure they were comfortable. Still I recall one woman who would come outside in the garage to talk to me but when she went back inside the deadbolt would clunk very audibly. I thought it was weird but I wasn't offended, I just finished up my quote in the garage.

But you would think that most folks out for a ride would at least be polite to other riders in the absence of any reason to be otherwise.


FIFY

Plus: kudos for not getting offended by that customer. Many dudes would've taken it personally, even though it has nothing to do with them as an individual.

Regarding 40-tude and the woman who asked him not to draft: it could be because she is female, it could also be because you were in her personal space , that you were uninvited, that you were a stranger, or that she prefers to ride alone.

Regardless, if you try to force your presence on someone who doesn't want you there, for whatever reason, you shouldn't be offended if they ask you to not be there.

I'm not saying you can't share the bike path, just don't sit inches away from someone who doesn't want you there.

Strangers who jump on my wheel get politely asked to not do that as well. If I don't know you, I don't want you anywhere near enough to cause me to crash.

Nice bikes and fancy kit only means someone can afford those things, not that someone has good handling skills. People crash expensive sports cars all the time because they don't know how to drive. Nice bikes are no different.


Do you guys drive cars at all? Do you freak out if there are cars in the lanes next to you are behind you?

If you don't like that someone is behind you, pull over and stop. Just keep in mind that eventually someone else will come along. It's not like the roads are private and that we have the right to tell people not to use them when we are on them. Just more symptoms of an entitled society.

If they tailgate I object.

And that's what were talking about here - people that all of a sudden, when you do a random shoulder check, sit on your wheel. When that happens I say hi, carry on, and when they are still there 3 minutes later without offering to do a pull, I drop the hammer. If that doesn't help, I take any random turnoff. Because it's annoying, having somebody in your personal space that just stalks you.

Now, if the road is busy and there are lots of cyclists around (almost like a busy highway when you're in the car :-) it's different. But if you're basically the only two cyclists on the road it's just plain rude to sit on somebody's wheel without sharing the work.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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This has been happening more lately.......

Wife and I are riding and I'm pulling, creepy dude(s) get on my wife's wheel. I pull over, she pulls, I get on her wheel. Dude drops off my wheel. They were just watching her ass.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Scottxs] [ In reply to ]
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Scottxs wrote:
This has been happening more lately.......

Wife and I are riding and I'm pulling, creepy dude(s) get on my wife's wheel. I pull over, she pulls, I get on her wheel. Dude drops off my wheel. They were just watching her ass.

I had a car/truck that just took a wee bit to long to pass me this summer. Thinking about it it occurred to me it probably took him (it was an old farmer in a beat-up pickup truck) probably a little while to realize he was looking at a guy's ass, and not a girl's.

Even if that was not what was going on, it gave me some insight in what it must be like to be ogled the whole time.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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mcmetal wrote:
davejustdave wrote:
Fuller wrote:
Some women are quite understandably very hinky about one on one encounters with men in any situation. I owned a business where I would do in house sales calls to sell remodeling services. Most of my customers were women and I would go out of my way to make sure they were comfortable. Still I recall one woman who would come outside in the garage to talk to me but when she went back inside the deadbolt would clunk very audibly. I thought it was weird but I wasn't offended, I just finished up my quote in the garage.

But you would think that most folks out for a ride would at least be polite to other riders in the absence of any reason to be otherwise.


FIFY

Plus: kudos for not getting offended by that customer. Many dudes would've taken it personally, even though it has nothing to do with them as an individual.

Regarding 40-tude and the woman who asked him not to draft: it could be because she is female, it could also be because you were in her personal space , that you were uninvited, that you were a stranger, or that she prefers to ride alone.

Regardless, if you try to force your presence on someone who doesn't want you there, for whatever reason, you shouldn't be offended if they ask you to not be there.

I'm not saying you can't share the bike path, just don't sit inches away from someone who doesn't want you there.

Strangers who jump on my wheel get politely asked to not do that as well. If I don't know you, I don't want you anywhere near enough to cause me to crash.

Nice bikes and fancy kit only means someone can afford those things, not that someone has good handling skills. People crash expensive sports cars all the time because they don't know how to drive. Nice bikes are no different.

Do you guys drive cars at all? Do you freak out if there are cars in the lanes next to you are behind you?

If you don't like that someone is behind you, pull over and stop. Just keep in mind that eventually someone else will come along. It's not like the roads are private and that we have the right to tell people not to use them when we are on them. Just more symptoms of an entitled society.

Um, there IS. A difference between people "driving near you" and someone driving so close (tailgaiting) that if you mash on the brakes, the literally won't even have time to lift their foot off the gas before they hit you.. reaction times and all that.

You will note I quite clearly differentiated between sharing the path and being within inches of someone when uninvited.

One is fine, the other is the action of a self important buffoon who has no comprehension of simple physics.

For you to imply that our society is "entitled" because we don't want people engaging in dangerous behaviours is just silly.

Asking someone to not engage in a dangerous behaviour is not "entitled". It's called being aware. In fact, the only person who is acting entitled is people who clearly don't care if they endanger others if it interferes with what they want.

I bet you tailgate when driving to. Just because it hasn't bit you yet doesnt mean it can't. Look up normilazation of deviance some time.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Richard Blaine wrote:
Scottxs wrote:
This has been happening more lately.......

Wife and I are riding and I'm pulling, creepy dude(s) get on my wife's wheel. I pull over, she pulls, I get on her wheel. Dude drops off my wheel. They were just watching her ass.

I had a car/truck that just took a wee bit to long to pass me this summer. Thinking about it it occurred to me it probably took him (it was an old farmer in a beat-up pickup truck) probably a little while to realize he was looking at a guy's ass, and not a girl's.

Even if that was not what was going on, it gave me some insight in what it must be like to be ogled the whole time.
Ok, this was awesome for a laugh!!!

Oh, and how do you know he didn't know he was looking at a dudes ass? Who are we to judge?

Just take it as a compliment
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Scottxs] [ In reply to ]
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Scottxs wrote:
This has been happening more lately.......

Wife and I are riding and I'm pulling, creepy dude(s) get on my wife's wheel. I pull over, she pulls, I get on her wheel. Dude drops off my wheel. They were just watching her ass.

I do something similar when riding with my GF.

I'm pulling, someone we pass gets on her wheel; I pull out and get behind her, back off to create a 50 meter gap then ride hard to catch back up to her and start pulling again.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [davejustdave] [ In reply to ]
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davejustdave wrote:
Richard Blaine wrote:
Scottxs wrote:
This has been happening more lately.......

Wife and I are riding and I'm pulling, creepy dude(s) get on my wife's wheel. I pull over, she pulls, I get on her wheel. Dude drops off my wheel. They were just watching her ass.


I had a car/truck that just took a wee bit to long to pass me this summer. Thinking about it it occurred to me it probably took him (it was an old farmer in a beat-up pickup truck) probably a little while to realize he was looking at a guy's ass, and not a girl's.

Even if that was not what was going on, it gave me some insight in what it must be like to be ogled the whole time.

Ok, this was awesome for a laugh!!!

Oh, and how do you know he didn't know he was looking at a dudes ass? Who are we to judge?

Just take it as a compliment

"Not that there's anything wrong with that"

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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I have done this as well, but it is also annoying to have to adjust riding paces to get away from random drafters.

I think I am going to ziptie a tin can to my seatpost with a sign that says "Friends draft free, all others $1/minute." And then I can just point and say "Money in the can, please!"
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [ In reply to ]
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Normally I ride a pace that most people won't be able to sustain so no worries for me on unknown wheel suckers... but if a person wants to, by all means my friend stuck wheel away.

Speed kills unless you have speed skills!!!
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [playero] [ In reply to ]
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playero wrote:
Normally I ride a pace that most people won't be able to sustain so no worries for me on unknown wheel suckers... but if a person wants to, by all means my friend stuck wheel away.

Me too, although in my case it's because they can't sustain such a slow pace.

Nanoo Nanoo
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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This happened to me today and I was reminded of this thread.
I was about 4 hours into a 6 hour ride and a dude appeared behind me. After about 10 minutes I waved him through to take a pull but he didn't budge. Tried to talk to him but we had language issues. Tried to stay zen (why should I care, I'm doing my thing) but the fact that he was there made me increasingly nervous and annoyed. After about 45 minutes (!) I called him out again and he finally communicated "no training", which I think meant he was cracked. After about an hour he faded away. Never even got a thanks.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [eisforurgent] [ In reply to ]
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I had a young guy suck my wheel (I was in the bars! SMH...) and would not take a hint. I tried riding away but he just stayed there in the slipstream. Finally had to tell him off. He was more clueless than an asshole though.

One guy was an asshole. His bike was apparently last serviced in 1865 and squeaked like combination of tinnitus and top key on the piano REALLY LOUDLY. Was trying to enjoy my ride and there he was. I asked him about it (hint) and he just shrugged it off and said it was his rain bike. Then continued to stay back there despite being told to fricken back off. I rode away from him not because I'm good but because he sucked.
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