There is a reason (this one) why the general classification is always always decided in the mountains and in the TT. Riders need to be riding on their own or against gravity to be able to differentiate at the sharpest end.
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Re: The science of drafting/ pelotons [bazilbrush]
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Re: The science of drafting/ pelotons [Anachronism]
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Anachronism wrote:
With all I read on the benefits of drafting I am always surprised out in the real world how many people can't hang on the back of a pace line or in a pack. I have been on both sides of this... Are the real world benefits not really what we see on paper or is there really that much difference in the strength of riders?
It’s probably more of the variation is speed piece/ max power piece that kicks people out the back.
A steady effort really shouldn’t shred anyone unless they just don’t have the power to hang anyways. But a lot of people can’t handle variation in power. Do a couple surges and it throws people over their max for too long and they’ll quickly pedal squares.
Re: The science of drafting/ pelotons [Anachronism]
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Anachronism wrote:
With all I read on the benefits of drafting I am always surprised out in the real world how many people can't hang on the back of a pace line or in a pack. I have been on both sides of this... Are the real world benefits not really what we see on paper or is there really that much difference in the strength of riders?
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Re: The science of drafting/ pelotons [AlexS]
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AlexS wrote:
Anachronism wrote:
With all I read on the benefits of drafting I am always surprised out in the real world how many people can't hang on the back of a pace line or in a pack. I have been on both sides of this... Are the real world benefits not really what we see on paper or is there really that much difference in the strength of riders?
The pace of a group of cyclists is often not constant. There are regular accelerations for various reasons plus variable gradient terrain which shifts the energy demand from to other factors. Then there are cross winds and various tactical games going on, many riders seeking to occupy the same spot plus the fact that it's a learned craft.
+ a sizeable "accordion" effect if everyone in the group is not paying attention. The acceleration at the back of the pack will be to hard for many, especially over hilltops/rollers when the front of the pack is already on the flat or downhill
Re: The science of drafting/ pelotons [EiE_]
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EiE_ wrote:
AlexS wrote:
+ a sizeable "accordion" effect if everyone in the group is not paying attention. The acceleration at the back of the pack will be to hard for many, especially over hilltops/rollers when the front of the pack is already on the flat or downhillYears ago, like 10 or more, I was capable of riding with the A group of my local bike club without getting dropped 30 miles out. Back then we would run a pace line of 7 to 10 bikes at nearly 30 mph for miles on a certain stretch of road. I had no power meter back then, but I suspect that I wasn't strong enough to do that without some very strong riding skills and a big set of balls. We were inches off each other's wheels and if you didn't time the back bike insertion correctly it was nearly impossible to get back on that wheel. The moment someone goofed and gapped the back wheel the fun was over. There was usually no coming back if you lost 2 feet.
In case you are wondering, we never crashed doing that. We did other stupid things that got us road rash, but not doing a fast pace line. We also did not do the pace line with new riders until they had several 100 miles with us under their belt.
"...the street finds its own uses for things"
Re: The science of drafting/ pelotons [AutomaticJack]
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AutomaticJack wrote:
EiE_ wrote:
AlexS wrote:
+ a sizeable "accordion" effect if everyone in the group is not paying attention. The acceleration at the back of the pack will be to hard for many, especially over hilltops/rollers when the front of the pack is already on the flat or downhillYears ago, like 10 or more, I was capable of riding with the A group of my local bike club without getting dropped 30 miles out. Back then we would run a pace line of 7 to 10 bikes at nearly 30 mph for miles on a certain stretch of road. I had no power meter back then, but I suspect that I wasn't strong enough to do that without some very strong riding skills and a big set of balls. We were inches off each other's wheels and if you didn't time the back bike insertion correctly it was nearly impossible to get back on that wheel. The moment someone goofed and gapped the back wheel the fun was over. There was usually no coming back if you lost 2 feet.
In case you are wondering, we never crashed doing that. We did other stupid things that got us road rash, but not doing a fast pace line. We also did not do the pace line with new riders until they had several 100 miles with us under their belt.
yeah, i've always felt the hardest part of riding a paceline like that is getting back on the last wheel. you're gassed from your turn on the front, you finally roll off, get a moments respite, then you have to have the wits/timing and power to latch back on before you get the real recovery. even then, sitting on the back isn't "easy" as despite the draft saving, you have to either be very on it to maintain a reliable draft or have the power to survive accelerations, corners, cross-wind gusts etc. the moment you lose the perfect draft position at that sort of speed you are in a world of trouble if you can't turn on big power instantly (guess how i know!)
Re: The science of drafting/ pelotons [knighty76]
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knighty76 wrote:
There is a reason (this one) why the general classification is always always decided in the mountains and in the TT. Riders need to be riding on their own or against gravity to be able to differentiate at the sharpest end.I get your point, but I disagree a little bit with the premise. With no TT or mountain, you'd still get a differentiation at the sharpest end, it'd just be a different sharpest end. You'd get like Sagan winning GC instead of human coathangers.
Re: The science of drafting/ pelotons [Anachronism]
[ In reply to ]
Anachronism wrote:
With all I read on the benefits of drafting I am always surprised out in the real world how many people can't hang on the back of a pace line or in a pack. I have been on both sides of this... Are the real world benefits not really what we see on paper or is there really that much difference in the strength of riders?
There are certainly a lot of variables here. Grade of the road, wind direction. . . . in a pancake flat condition with little wind. . . . it can be very hard to get separation. . . . but even then . . . when you see the boys get lined out. . . it's crazy hard no matter where you are in that pack.
Re: The science of drafting/ pelotons [pk1]
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Quote:
sitting on the back isn't "easy" as despite the draft savingThe draft effect is very real but people can forget the fact that in a pack "20% easier" often means everyone is still at their limit because of either "great, so let's go 20% faster" or "thank God for the draft because I have no business riding with these guys otherwise."
Yes - I remember her quite well. Along with two dudes in a matching white kits with a Sangria brand on it. They probably aren't big fans of me (zero f's given) after I told them that its too bad they can't draft on the run
IG: NCGregory8778
IG: NCGregory8778