Well it looked to me like Froome held back a bit when Thomas attacked initially, and it was only when he realised noone else in the group could lay down any big attacks when he went. Bardet's attacks were only for a short period, then he'd sit up. Wasn't it when Martin took off that Froome went with him?

Because he is not a disaster on the bike, and he is an amazing TT and overall racer. Watching Froome ride is like watching Sanders run, it makes me want to vomit.

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

One could ask the same about D. Martin. He pulled Froomy 95% of the way to TD....For what, to gain a few seconds on guys not on the likely podium? Unless he thought he could catch the leader (surely his DS gave him the splits), that was one boneheaded move.

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

I think why Froome looks so funny on the bike is that he bikes a bit "toes in" but it appears to be at a wide stance width (may be an optical illusion). Sanders seems to have a bit of a similar pedaling style....not exactly, but there seem to be some similarities in part of the pedal stroke.

OK back to the racing,,,let's see who burned what matches today and pays after today's 4000m vertical day

Because Quintana is the weakest, most overrated, and most unexciting team leader in the history of not just the Tour but all of team sport. He makes Jay Cutler look Michael Jordanesque. I have watched squirrels take more exciting shits on my front lawn than the best of Quintanas attacks in the Tour. And yes i have had too much bourbon for a Wed night. Wake me up when Sky is bankrupt, the Tour bans race radios and Quintana is selling Powercranks at the Disney tri expo.

Cogent analysis. Tactically brilliant as you said earlier, though not quite to my taste.

PSA: For USA live watchers on NBC Gold. It is not necessary to listen to the constant jibberish of the Crocodile Hunter and his brother (RIP Steve Irwin). There is option to watch with commercials, where you'll get Phil, Paul, Christian, Bob, Jens, and at least one other dude. This coverage is so much better as is it is not just two guys trying to come with superlatives constantly. If you stream both, you can go Aussie blabber mouths during commercials. However during the finale there are no commercials.

I discovered this just as I was about to stream pirated french feed from steephill so I could listen to that instead of the Aussies who don't know how to shut up ever.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Hey hey..he was one of the instigators in the Formigel attack where they took the Vuelta away from the pre inhaler Froome.....but I like the part in bold where Quintana is hanging out at the Disney Tri Expo!

Wow, I would pay double if I could never listen to the absolute nonsense coming from the phil and paul show. They are beyond rubbish, and when Jens pipes up, it is painful to hear/watch. And it is great to watch coverage that is not focused on the US riders (to which the biggest story is LC and his velodrome support)

The Aussies are super knowledgeable and Robbie is one funny dude who knows the sport like few others (the modern era not the 1050s)

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

There is no accounting for taste as I'd do the opposite.

I find the Aussies to be non-stop nonsense. But I suppose any announcers trying to constantly put words to cycling, or any sport, are going to spew nonsense and the question really is what nonsense sounds good to you.

I was a big fan of Robbie when he did his talking with his legs. If he is the guy who talks less than the other guy who sounds more like Steve Irwin, then I'd say he's ok. It's the guy who is constantly talking that drives me nuts. He's just making crap up half the time.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

I agree, we are getting Robbie doing the commentary here in Canada. He makes you feel like you are there!

Re Valverde, he opened up a 30 second gap on the Sky train in no time at all, that's a huge effort. He simply doesn't have the legs to do that, then sit up and go again. His attack was all about forcing Sky to work hard to catch him, softening them up so that Landa or Quintana could attack. It kind of worked - Sky train fell apart a bit earlier than they would have planned - but unfortunately for everybody else it turned out that Froome and Thomas were the ones with the legs to attack at that point.

Re Froome, he was very careful not to tow anybody from the group up to Thomas. Each time he attacked and was caught he immediately sat up. The attack that stuck was when Bardet and Martin could no longer go with him and he got away solo. He then ended up towing Dumoulin a bit after he'd caught him, but Dumoulin was up the road from the group and at that point Thomas was well clear, so no real issues there. Also very surprising that Dumoulin had the legs to hang onto Froome's wheel having been climbing solo for a long time, you'd expect Froome to have gone straight past as Thomas did. Suggests to me that either Froome isn't quite hitting top form yet, or else he was holding back a bit at that point. Guess we should find out today!

This is exactly what I told my wife after watching the stage win by Thomas last night...."something is not right". Thomas and Froome are both strong riders, but so are all of the GC guys, and Thomas/Froome dropped those other GC guys like they were fresh and just starting the climb. It was almost super human how Thomas jumped and then blew past everyone. Same with Froome how he rode with Martin for a few minutes and then blasted off.

When you read some of the books, from the riders of the Armstrong era, they describe realizing something new was occurring in the peloton because of the "impossibly fast" guys around them. Guys were flying up mountains like they had a motor. This same description can be used to describe a lot of activity in the current peloton.

What I do not get is why did the guys who leave US Postal and why do the guys who leave Sky suck so badly when they leave these teams. I assume once on the team they have all the know how of how their old "superteam" (Superdoped at Postal, we don't know really at Sky) do it. Then they go to other teams and the ex Sky superstar is getting dropped by Sky domestiques, but the ex Sky guy can replicate his former Sky program and be like his old self yet he is not.

I THINK what most of this comes down to is money. If you have a $42M budget and you stack your team with enough fast guys, you never have to work as much as the other teams who arguably are on the same dope program because some of those guys were on your team previously. But they have 2 studs, not 6 and a Luke Rowe/George Hincapie dude to ride protection. It's the only thing I can think of. In fairness Floyd and Tyler Hamilton were pretty studly after they left US Postal. Bjarne Riis new how to medicate his donkeys to thoroughbreds and he knew how to organize his guys just as well as Johan B. He just did not have a Lance. All doped to the gills Basso nor Tyler had the mental headspace of Lance to win at all costs. I think Froome has the same win at all costs mentality as Lance. The guy will do whatever he can, like attacking downhills on top tubes, attacking the entire peloton with Sagan, running up Ventoux....whatever. And I am sure whatever includes any inhaler stuff and assorted goodies he can get away with, but if we think none of the other teams are doing it, there is a bridge in Brooklyn.

Largely, I think we are seeing a much cleaner peloton than 2005.

"Largely, I think we are seeing a much cleaner peloton than 2005."

So this


as opposed to this

I don't know. Look at Nieve yesterday. When on Sky, he not only did all the work at the front, he stayed up there for a majority of the climb. Yesterday, he climbed well but Thomas flew past him like Nieve was an amateur out for a leisurely climb. Yes Nieve had been in the breakaway but that's gotta be nothing compared to being the workhorse for Team Sky up the mountains, day after day. Those guys work so hard that when they pull off they are barely moving anymore.

I would propose one reason why the super domestics on Postal/Sky do not often go on to be winners on other teams. Sky/Postal seem to put all their eggs into the TdF and so likely their domestics are fresher come July than in other teams where the pressure to race year round is likely much higher. Racing that much more/less would have an impact on the performances in July, no?

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

Pressure


Pressure to perform every single day when it counts and pressure to fill a role are hugely different. Sky train guys can have "off" days and come back tomorrow and crush the 8 other GC guys into submission because there will be 4 other Sky helpers to fill your off day. And as you say that's what money can buy.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

This. Thomas will lose time on ADH to Puff Daddy, which is much more suited for Puff Daddy, unlike yesterday, which was a power climber's last climb, which was perfect for Thomas.

"Phil, Paul, Christian, Bob, Jens, and at least one other dude. ". Fucking terrible commentators. All of them.

Robbie McEwan is brilliant, funny and insightful. Paul and Phil don't even understand what is going on in a bike race anymore.

An alternative is the team doctor. I guess team Sky riders are not buying their vitamin C, and aspirines at their local pharmacies, but rather they are supplied by the team doctor. They get volume discounts that way and that allocates more pennies for further marginal gains.

Hats off to team Sky, it turned a 25 year old nobody into a four times TdF winner and now a 31 year old 70kg 6 feet guy that never won a stage (other than a 14k TT) guy into a great climber, the first to win Alpe d'Huez in the yellow jersey in the history of TdF. And that is after winning the previous stage.

I am 100% sure cycling is cleaner today.

#truth

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

OK, I partially buy that, but Landa did the Giro and was an absolute stud with Sky at the TdF in 2017. Pouls is in both this year....anyway let's see what shakes out the rest of the TdF, but it is baffling that ex Postal and ex Sky who know all the inside secrets cannot turn their inside knowledge to gold on the outside. Or maybe the special Postal and Sky Energy gel packs have some magic that no one else can access. It's just weird that no one can pull it off when they leave and go elsewhere.

Kind of missed this one, eh? GT was more than the match for Froomey today and probably gave all the GC guys a scare if they thought he was just a one day yellow jersey.

I am pissed to see Nibs go down as he would quite likely out kicked GT in the finale as he has better speed in those moments...

Huge props to TD as he showed not just his normal TT method, but also chased down Froomey and even gave a few digs of his own.

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

Gee, thanks for the stage 12 spoiler. There's a reason for separate threads for each stage, ya know.

Sorry about that. I wasn't aware.