Slowman wrote:
i think certainly for the crit, and largely for the road race, the other factor is the dynamics of the race that are beyond your control. maybe that's what you mean by race tactics - not necessarily your tactics, but the tactics of others that determine what power and cadence you're forced to ride.
Sorry for the delayed response. I was traveling.
Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
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i hear you on the trainer issue, i just still struggle with: do i ride the trainer differently because the trainer requires different responses from me than the open road? or, without the input of the open road, i ride more appropriately on the trainer, and if i transfered what i learn from the trainer to the road i'd be more effective on the road? on the one hand, it's intuitive to me that what i ride on the road is appropriate for the road. on the other hand, what cadences i choose on the trainer are what i see good riders do on the road.
Good riders appear to have various way to "express" their power output in terms of cadence and crank torque: they use a different set of cadences and crank torques when climbing a hill than when descending, or when riding on the flat. They use a different set of cadences and crank torques when facing a head wind than when getting a tail wind.
Most people seem to quote an "average" cadence and an "average" power when they look back at their race. I think that tells only part of the story. That's why I've been showing second-by-second data, and how it varies.
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i would love to see what your plots look like for a rider who's forced to pedal, variously, 80 percent, 90 percent, up to 120 percent of his FTP on his trainer.
I have some trainer data, but mostly for me. The virtue of the cadence-crank torque plots I've been showing is that the dotted lines show power (since cadence*crank torque can give you power). So I don't remember what the FTP of those guys were but you can imagine how the cadence and crank torque vary as you move from one dotted line up to the next (dotted lines higher and to the right are higher power). So imagine a dotted line at his FTP, then a dotted line below that at 80% of his FTP and another above that at 120% of his FTP. What you're asking about is related to this: suppose at each dotted line you could calculate a "center" (I'm leaving this vague). Now, as you move from the 80% FTP line to the 90% line to the 100% line to the 110% line and so on, draw a line connecting the "centers." This might be called a "power expansion path." One thing you may be able to see from the guy who did a road race, a crit, and a TT is that the power expansion path is different for each type of race. The PEPs are not the same; there's no universal PEP that applies to all types of races. This is even clearer if you use data from a trainer: you'll get a different PEP even among trainers. Rollers will have a different PEP than fluid trainers, which will be different from wind trainers. Over the years I've moved every few years and trainers are heavy so I sell them when I move and buy used when I arrive. I've had wind trainers, fluid trainers, magnetic trainers, rollers, and a low end ergo. For me, they all have different PEPs. So, back to your question about whether the trainer tells you something: which trainer?
A long time ago I suggested looking at power expansion paths, and how they vary with the type of race. (If you're familiar with them, these are analogous to "income expansion paths" in economics).