TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle

Jul 9, 18 16:58

Post #1 of 25 (3236 views)

Flat 195K stage tomorrow. A few more days to wait for the Roubaix cobbles:

Here is the profile for the closing sprint....just a gradual ramp into the finish but not much (13m over 1K). Not sure how cooked Sagan and Gavaria are after getting dropped by their teams in the TTT and having to ride in alone.

Key GC deltas

Greg Van Avermaet (Bel) BMC Racing Team 9:08:55
Tejay van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team 0:00:00
Geraint Thomas (GBr) Team Sky 0:00:03
Rigoberto Uran (Col) EF Education First-Drapac p/b Cannondale 0:00:35
Richie Porte (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:00:51
Jakob Fuglsang (Den) Astana 0:00:52
Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Movistar Team 0:00:54
Mikel Landa (Spa) Movistar Team 0:00:54
Chris Froome (GBr) Team Sky 0:00:55
Adam Yates (GBr) Mitchelton-Scott 0:01:00
Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Bahrain-Merida 0:01:06
Romain Bardet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:01:15
Egan Bernal (Col) Team Sky 0:01:19
Daniel Martin (Irl) UAE Team Emirates 0:01:39
Warren Barguil (Fra) Fortuneo-Samsic 0:01:47
Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team 0:02:09

Winds tomorrow Northerly 9-11 kph

Green Jersey points

RANKRIDERRIDER NO.TEAMPOINTSBP1 PETER SAGAN111BORA - HANSGROHE104 PTS--2 FERNANDO GAVIRIA RENDON103QUICK - STEP FLOORS78 PTS--3 ALEXANDER KRISTOFF95UAE TEAM EMIRATES53 PTS--4 ARNAUD DEMARE151GROUPAMA - FDJ41 PTS--5 ANDRÉ GREIPEL171LOTTO SOUDAL35 PTS--6 SONNY COLBRELLI52BAHRAIN - MERIDA30 PTS--7 MARCEL KITTEL144TEAM KATUSHA ALPECIN28 PTS--8 SYLVAIN CHAVANEL183DIRECT ENERGIE20 PTS--9 JEROME COUSIN184DIRECT ENERGIE20 PTS--10 TIMOTHY DUPONT213WANTY - GROUPE GOBERT19 PTS--

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 9, 18 20:01

Post #2 of 25 (3166 views)

Or were they saving themselves for stage 4? Hmmm. Slight uphill finish, good for the big power boys.

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [G-man] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 4:56

Post #3 of 25 (3028 views)

G-man wrote:

Or were they saving themselves for stage 4? Hmmm. Slight uphill finish, good for the big power boys.

On the one hand if Sagan or Gavaria could stay on, I think they would, in the hope of staying/getting in yellow. Gavaria had a shot given how well his "sprinter train" pulled in the TTT (sprinter train is ideal for a TTT since they do short V02 effort at the front pull and then go back to FTP or sub FTP after). I think Gavaria was cooked. Sagan looked pretty cooked too.

Will be interesting to see if a breakaway can get away today

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [G-man] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 7:13

Post #4 of 25 (2951 views)

Look like a full on sprinter stage finish today. Escapees down to 2:20 with 84km.

Waiting for this

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [G-man] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 8:43

Post #5 of 25 (2885 views)

1:40 gap with 14km to go...can the pull it off?

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 10:05

Post #6 of 25 (2814 views)

Exciting finish.

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 10:24

Post #7 of 25 (2785 views)

devashish_paul wrote:

G-man wrote:

Or were they saving themselves for stage 4? Hmmm. Slight uphill finish, good for the big power boys.

On the one hand if Sagan or Gavaria could stay on, I think they would, in the hope of staying/getting in yellow. Gavaria had a shot given how well his "sprinter train" pulled in the TTT (sprinter train is ideal for a TTT since they do short V02 effort at the front pull and then go back to FTP or sub FTP after). I think Gavaria was cooked. Sagan looked pretty cooked too.

Will be interesting to see if a breakaway can get away today

How much TT training is a guy like Sagan doing? I mean he is so versatile that I think he needs to juggle a lot of different skills in training. The sprinters need to develop and take care of all that top end power but they also need tremendous endurance because you need to apply that power after 200k.
Then Sagan can also ride very fast at Vo2max pace to ride with decisive breakaways before the finish.
TT is not something that is important for him so if he does not spend too much time on the TT bike it could be akward to produce the power in position.

(It's just an assumption as I've recently started to ride my TT bike again)

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 10:44

Post #8 of 25 (2761 views)

So I thought ST was nothing but cyclists, and look now at the mighty TdF threads. 7 posts (8 now), 3 by you as OP. What happened!?!??!?!?

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 10:49

Post #9 of 25 (2748 views)

bluemonkeytri wrote:

So I thought ST was nothing but cyclists, and look now at the mighty TdF threads. 7 posts (8 now), 3 by you as OP. What happened!?!??!?!?

ST only cares about BIKES and GEAR. Almost no one cares about real human athletes racing on top of the gear. But hey, we can talk about the escapees coming oh so close today and then getting shut down by the Quickstep train the day after they almost one the TTT (they lost by 7 seconds and dropped Gavaria, if not, he's in yellow last nite and today).

Cobbles coming up soon. This should be fun to see the carnage on the GC...

....oh, and is Cav blaming his lame ST approved Cervelo today/

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 10:49

Post #10 of 25 (2748 views)

bluemonkeytri wrote:

So I thought ST was nothing but cyclists, and look now at the mighty TdF threads. 7 posts (8 now), 3 by you as OP. What happened!?!??!?!?

There are no mountains yet.

And we are discussing in kind of two threads. I find Devs daily ones better than one overall though.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 10:53

Post #11 of 25 (2742 views)

So I am a very atypical slowtwitcher.

I love to run and I like riding my bike.

But I am not interested in gear at all. I don't care who rides what bike etc. And I hate tinkering around with it.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [ToBeasy] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 15:10

Post #12 of 25 (2648 views)

Just to be clear, Power13 started the daily TdF threads around 3 years ago and did it for a few years if I recall correctly. I found that format interactive in terms of daily banter and exploits. Power13 was not around last year, so I stepped up mainly because I am fan and I would like to get more triathlon people excited about bike racing as a spectacle whether they ever raced bikes or not.

Speaking of biking as a specacle, my man Cav (OK the man crush extended to Sagan, I can't believe these two deprived me of their combined heroic last year) has been missing in action.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/...strong-team-display/

I hope Cav can get a bit stronger before this TdF ends and squeek out at least a stage but there has been little shown to date to show he can even make the front group?

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 15:48

Post #13 of 25 (2618 views)

devashish_paul wrote:

I hope Cav can get a bit stronger before this TdF ends and squeek out at least a stage but there has been little shown to date to show he can even make the front group?

Gaviria makin' a few d00dz look old!

On the other hand, I do appreciate the beauty of a classic, old-school leadout train. It seems that leadout trains were becoming a bit passe with a lot of sprints being won by solo artists Sagan and post-HTC Cav.

Of course Sagan and Cav get some very valuable help from teammates. But I'm talking about the dominant Cipollini-style leadouts. The guys are doing a great job making space for Gaviria to close. And he's closing.

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [trail] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 16:57

Post #14 of 25 (2581 views)

Those HTC lead out trains were a thing of beauty.

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 17:26

Post #15 of 25 (2556 views)

If only Cav had a better bike he’d be right in the mix!!

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [trail] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 17:44

Post #16 of 25 (2542 views)

trail wrote:

devashish_paul wrote:

I hope Cav can get a bit stronger before this TdF ends and squeek out at least a stage but there has been little shown to date to show he can even make the front group?

Gaviria makin' a few d00dz look old!

On the other hand, I do appreciate the beauty of a classic, old-school leadout train. It seems that leadout trains were becoming a bit passe with a lot of sprints being won by solo artists Sagan and post-HTC Cav.

Of course Sagan and Cav get some very valuable help from teammates. But I'm talking about the dominant Cipollini-style leadouts. The guys are doing a great job making space for Gaviria to close. And he's closing.

I thought today Quickstep did a lot to deliver Gavaria to 300m but from there it was Gavaria against every Tier1 sprinter each from other teams. I believe today Cav was best positioned but "self boxed" himself in behind his own guy Renshaw...he basically screwed up his wheel surfing. That does not mean he had a chance, but it was interesting to see him at least at the point that he could contest something.

Also great recovery by Team Drapac saving the day for Rigo. They had to ride a 4000m style team pursuit to re attach him. Kudos! Zakarin was the big GC loser....looks like he lost ~ 60 seconds. Real bummer for Katusha on that.

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 17:51

Post #17 of 25 (2531 views)

Sorry stupid question, is Gaviria a real threat in both Hilly and flat stages? I haven't been paying much attention to him until now (I don't pay much attention to most sprinters, to be honest...) and I feel like Sagan's green dominance is because he challenges both flat & hilly.

Also, I am hoping to see van Avermaet take tomorrow's stage, would be nice to see yellow take a stage win while it's still on real shoulders (meaning not bones)

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [hadukla] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 19:47

Post #18 of 25 (2497 views)

I don't know how Gaviria climbs but this looks like a course where Sagan could easily hold. But then there are a bunch of strongman that could make life interesting on the run in. Might be worth a late flyer for some flahute kind of guy.

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 20:07

Post #19 of 25 (2482 views)

To me, the Tour is either won or lost on the mountains. Gaining a minute here or a second there on a flat stage doesn't mean squat if a rider can't climb or descend. I bet Froome is sitting back licking his chops.

Last edited by: RichardL: Jul 10, 18 20:51

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 20:55

Post #20 of 25 (2447 views)

Just chiming in to thank you for the daily TDF threads. I generally watch the stages as time permits throughout the day, then pop into the daily thread to read the commentary. I routinely learn something along the way.

I’m sure I’m not the only one silently following along, so please accept this as thanks from the lurkers for adding to the TDF experience.

Scott

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]

Jul 10, 18 22:12

Post #21 of 25 (2418 views)

Cav got boxed, or got his positioning wrong, but he also didn’t look like he was going to make the bridge at any point. I didn’t like how, with the worlds tiniest of squeezes he threw his arms in the air as if to blame that, because he had already started to sit up, having realised he wasn’t getting it today. I really like Cav, and he can be a bit of a slow starter to stage races, so I am hoping he managed to grab a stage soon.

As for this thread: love it. I agree that slowtwitch forums are really not able to generate much heat around the actual professional sport of triathlon or cycling, but if you post a topic about a rear derailleur or similar it will go crazy. That, unfortunately, is just the nature of the site.

I personally appreciate the effort that goes into these threads.

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [RichardL] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 18 4:53

Post #22 of 25 (2366 views)

RichardL wrote:

To me, the Tour is either won or lost on the mountains. Gaining a minute here or a second there on a flat stage doesn't mean squat if a rider can't climb or descend. I bet Froome is sitting back licking his chops.

While I think the TdF is won in the mountains or ITT, it can be lost in the TTT or on a flat stage. Look at the margin that Alex Zulle lost to Lance by during the 1999 event. It was essentially his margin lost in the Passage du Gois pile up....and before we start getting all bent out of joint about Lance, Alex Zulle previous team was the 1998 Festina team.

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 18 6:47

Post #23 of 25 (2338 views)

devashish_paul wrote:

I hope Cav can get a bit stronger before this TdF ends and squeek out at least a stage but there has been little shown to date to show he can even make the front group?

He's hit the ground a lot this year

Abu Dhabi - fractured shoulder
Tirreno-Adriatico - broken rib
MSR - concussion

I recon he's got The Fear

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [RandMart] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 18 7:10

Post #24 of 25 (2327 views)

On the topic of leadouts, yesterdays win (and loss) was all about the leadout, full credit to Gaviria of course but if Andre had a good leadout I believe there is a good chance he would have won.

Re: TdF Stage 4: Green Jersey boys back in the battle [trener1] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 18 7:57

Post #25 of 25 (2311 views)

trener1 wrote:

On the topic of leadouts, yesterdays win (and loss) was all about the leadout, full credit to Gaviria of course but if Andre had a good leadout I believe there is a good chance he would have won.

Also Gavaria is 10 kilos lighter than Greipel and the last kilometer had a total rise of 20+m. It's not nothing as that is the height of two 10m diving platforms. Greipel would have just done more work to haul his extra mass up. You could see Greipel shoot ahead and then run out of steam even though do a moment his velocity was higher....he just could not keep up his higher velocity and it looked like he just slowed down and Gavaria kept going at whatever speed he had (Gavaria is also more aero and pushing a smaller wall of wind when the sprint is long)

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