Just wondering what people include as their mass? If including bike weight, should one include two full water bottles? Coaches- any thoughts?
I have just used my weight.
Team Zoot So Cal
I have just used my weight.
Team Zoot So Cal
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Re: W/kg- should one include bike mass? [Karl]
[ In reply to ]
You're doing it right
Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
Re: W/kg- should one include bike mass? [Karl]
[ In reply to ]
If you are going to try to calculate your time up a climb, include your bike. If you are trying to characterize your fitness, just you.
Re: W/kg- should one include bike mass? [Karl]
[ In reply to ]
Karl wrote:
Just wondering what people include as their mass? If including bike weight, should one include two full water bottles? Coaches- any thoughts? I have just used my weight.
The primary purpose of Watts/Kg is to quantify your fitness in a way that can be compared and tracked over time. By having this metric consist soley on body weight, you can directly compare your fitness to your friends, competitors, or pro athletes. This takes away the 'money' aspect of bike racing and allows you to, in theory, see who should be a better climber.
That being said, if you are calculating your watts/kg in an effort to predict the outcome of a hill climb with your mates, then the bike weight, gear weight, water weight, Garmin weight, etc. should be included to get the best estimate :)
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Re: W/kg- should one include bike mass? [Bryce Lewis TR]
[ In reply to ]
As was asked in a different thread, should one use normalized power or average? Since I am using it for my personal info, does it matter as long as I am consistent? How would a coach instruct his/her client?
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Re: W/kg- should one include bike mass? [Karl]
[ In reply to ]
Karl wrote:
Just wondering what people include as their mass? If including bike weight, should one include two full water bottles? Coaches- any thoughts? I have just used my weight.
For an assessment of the physics of cycling, you'll need total mass.
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Re: W/kg- should one include bike mass? [Karl]
[ In reply to ]
Karl wrote:
As was asked in a different thread, should one use normalized power or average? Since I am using it for my personal info, does it matter as long as I am consistent? How would a coach instruct his/her client?Ask and answer that question first.
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Re: W/kg- should one include bike mass? [AlexS]
[ In reply to ]
If you are looking at your times up a pretty controlled or constant climb and doing some data, then yes. I would. For example, using a known grade hill to work out a VAM for purposes of pacing a hill-climb time trial. The pacing would be power based, surely, but you'd still want to train to a target goal of a VAM then maximize that. Because the VAM will be what determines your time, not just your power.
If for the purposes of slapping around your e-wang on the internet or at the brewery after the hammer ride....no. Just the rider then.
Also, anything you see on the internet is almost always going to be just the rider. And more often than not, that's when the rider is buck ass naked in their most dehydrated state. Not in a kit with a fully prepared and hydrated body.
NP with w/kg? I'd say no. It's all about zones and the tool for the fight. In that respect, it would be average watts and time. Because NP would totally toss the reality of what you can do for those zones.
Do the tests at each duration and see what you get. Decide which of them you need to work on for a race and which you don't.
5 sec: 17.5
1 min: 9.0
5 min: 4.6
20 min: 4.1
IMHO, outside of triathlon, I think weight is the most overlooked metric for a club rider. A club rider might never crest a 20min test of 250w or so, which is plenty. But, that 250w on a fancy carbon bike ain't shit if you weigh 80kg and you are busting a gut over the rollers and hills.
With discipline, weight for the club rider can be a very powerful tool in the bag. Especially if you're not in the wattage range to ever worry about being a "sprinter" or "pursuiter" or "climber". You're just a rider and nothing more.
If for the purposes of slapping around your e-wang on the internet or at the brewery after the hammer ride....no. Just the rider then.
Also, anything you see on the internet is almost always going to be just the rider. And more often than not, that's when the rider is buck ass naked in their most dehydrated state. Not in a kit with a fully prepared and hydrated body.
NP with w/kg? I'd say no. It's all about zones and the tool for the fight. In that respect, it would be average watts and time. Because NP would totally toss the reality of what you can do for those zones.
Do the tests at each duration and see what you get. Decide which of them you need to work on for a race and which you don't.
5 sec: 17.5
1 min: 9.0
5 min: 4.6
20 min: 4.1
IMHO, outside of triathlon, I think weight is the most overlooked metric for a club rider. A club rider might never crest a 20min test of 250w or so, which is plenty. But, that 250w on a fancy carbon bike ain't shit if you weigh 80kg and you are busting a gut over the rollers and hills.
With discipline, weight for the club rider can be a very powerful tool in the bag. Especially if you're not in the wattage range to ever worry about being a "sprinter" or "pursuiter" or "climber". You're just a rider and nothing more.
burnthesheep wrote:
If you are looking at your times up a pretty controlled or constant climb and doing some data, then yes. I would. For example, using a known grade hill to work out a VAM for purposes of pacing a hill-climb time trial. The pacing would be power based, surely, but you'd still want to train to a target goal of a VAM then maximize that. Because the VAM will be what determines your time, not just your power. If for the purposes of slapping around your e-wang on the internet or at the brewery after the hammer ride....no. Just the rider then.
Also, anything you see on the internet is almost always going to be just the rider. And more often than not, that's when the rider is buck ass naked in their most dehydrated state. Not in a kit with a fully prepared and hydrated body.
NP with w/kg? I'd say no. It's all about zones and the tool for the fight. In that respect, it would be average watts and time. Because NP would totally toss the reality of what you can do for those zones.
Do the tests at each duration and see what you get. Decide which of them you need to work on for a race and which you don't.
5 sec: 17.5
1 min: 9.0
5 min: 4.6
20 min: 4.1
IMHO, outside of triathlon, I think weight is the most overlooked metric for a club rider. A club rider might never crest a 20min test of 250w or so, which is plenty. But, that 250w on a fancy carbon bike ain't shit if you weigh 80kg and you are busting a gut over the rollers and hills.
With discipline, weight for the club rider can be a very powerful tool in the bag. Especially if you're not in the wattage range to ever worry about being a "sprinter" or "pursuiter" or "climber". You're just a rider and nothing more.
Hill climb speed is primarily a function of sustainable W/kg, so the key indicators are average power for the duration and total mass, which are the two factors a rider can control and train for. VAM is an outcome, and it varies with gradient for the same W/kg.
NP has value for assessment of other things, e.g. pacing assessment/strategy for time trials and triathlon bike legs. That's is why there are TSS guidelines for IM/HIM bike legs. NP and NP/kg for longer durations is a helpful guide for metabolic fitness for those who don't (or can't) do much steady state type riding.
http://www.cyclecoach.com
http://www.aerocoach.com.au