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Re: New Lionel bike position? [thatzone] [ In reply to ]
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thatzone wrote:
Let's be HONEST he looks like dogshit on his bike, but he looked like dogshit in Kona last year and still took 2nd.

Hopefully the dogshit look will improve by Kona time cuz Frodo is coming in hot.
🙂


... and Gomez.
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Re: New Lionel bike position? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Not exactly funny or even a stretch (Lionel may even say the same) .:. He lost by one half of one percent in total time (.5%) or 2:27 ... simple ancillaries like one better tactical decision, better basic fueling / hydration choice, basic biomechanical / postural improvements. (We are not even talking bikes, swim training, aerodynamics, blah blah) ... A few thoughtful, basic things. No overhaul.

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
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Re: New Lionel bike position? [bx3] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like he was racing smart.


With the improved swim times and less of a gap now to make up to get to the front of the race, and him having been able to do this now repeatedly, I'm sure there is now a level of confidence that has taken over, and perhaps a more "relaxed" approach to the chase, knowing that he WILL catch them.

In the past that had been a bit of an unknown. Now he knows it will happen. Thus, he can perhaps dial things back a bit for that first half of the bike. With repetition comes confidence. Before he was dealing with an unknown, and most likely using up huge watts in the chase.

We saw this in Kona last year. The catch came BEFORE they even got to Hawi, and then Sanders, Keinle et al rode right on by the lead group, and headed up the road, throwing a wrench into the plans of many I'm sure!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: New Lionel bike position? [triordie1994] [ In reply to ]
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triordie1994 wrote:
thatzone wrote:
Let's be HONEST he looks like dogshit on his bike, but he looked like dogshit in Kona last year and still took 2nd.

Hopefully the dogshit look will improve by Kona time cuz Frodo is coming in hot.
🙂



... and Gomez.

I am hearing from multiple sources that Lange is doing a lot of work on the bike in terms of biomechanics and aero.
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Re: New Lionel bike position? [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry you are simply wrong with that comment - he beat frodo at kona last year in what was clearly frodos inability to ride with the best and he paid for it and blew.

And he finished second in what is now the second fastest all time kona time......jesus man I think he's only lost 3 races in the past 2+ years....one to brownlee, kona to lang and frodo. All the while beating most of the worlds best at 70.3 and ironman.

I'm far from a sanders fan but sometimes the lack of just giving the guy his credit is annoying (almost as much as the love for him the other way).

Can we not be balanced or at least informed.
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Re: New Lionel bike position? [Canuck1] [ In reply to ]
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Canuck1 wrote:
Sorry you are simply wrong with that comment - he beat frodo at kona last year in what was clearly frodos inability to ride with the best and he paid for it and blew.

And he finished second in what is now the second fastest all time kona time......jesus man I think he's only lost 3 races in the past 2+ years....one to brownlee, kona to lang and frodo. All the while beating most of the worlds best at 70.3 and ironman.

I'm far from a sanders fan but sometimes the lack of just giving the guy his credit is annoying (almost as much as the love for him the other way).

Can we not be balanced or at least informed.

I am a fan as well and I think he is great. But the top guys measure themselves by how many Konas they’ve won, how many 70.3worlds they’ve won, and Olympic medals. By that standard, he hasn’t accomplished his goals.
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Re: New Lionel bike position? [Dave Latourette] [ In reply to ]
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That's funny, cause I think Lange would have been 0,5% faster if he had a second banana!
Maybe Lionel should get a pocket in his suit as well


Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
Last edited by: oscaro: Jun 26, 18 7:43
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Re: New Lionel bike position? [Canuck1] [ In reply to ]
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I think he is amazing. But that first picture looks about as uncomfortable and unorthodox (as dan would say) as it gets. You don't have to hate a guy to think that someone has put him into a questionable fit.
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Re: New Lionel bike position? [Canuck1] [ In reply to ]
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Canuck1 wrote:
Sorry you are simply wrong with that comment - he beat frodo at kona last year in what was clearly frodos inability to ride with the best and he paid for it and blew.

And he finished second in what is now the second fastest all time kona time......jesus man I think he's only lost 3 races in the past 2+ years....one to brownlee, kona to lang and frodo. All the while beating most of the worlds best at 70.3 and ironman.

I'm far from a sanders fan but sometimes the lack of just giving the guy his credit is annoying (almost as much as the love for him the other way).

Can we not be balanced or at least informed.

lionel being good and making questionable decisions (to outsiders) are not mutually exclusive.

many pros who experiment with the boundaries of their physical envelope insofar as aero position find themselves going back to a non super duper unbelievably aero fit at some point.

also, switching to a small frame was probably not the best way for lionel to achieve a "more aero" position.
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Re: New Lionel bike position? [Daniel Clarke] [ In reply to ]
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Daniel Clarke wrote:
I don't really have an opinion on his position, but as Ben mentioned I got photos of some of the pros about a mile into the bike in Tremblant. Here is Lionel:





I saw him last Sunday going uphill (incline of 7-9%) in the section entering chemin Duplessis and he didn't broke out of his aero position. Other pro guys needed to stand. Pure POWER going up amazing!!! Don't know if his riding stats are out there for Tremblant, but heard from a referee that he didn't jump into the lead once he caught the front group, stayed behind for a bit at least from his saying. Could he have rode faster probably, it was a perfect day for the PRO almost no wind the first 70km, they got head wind going into Duplessis which is a hilly section of the course.

But I'm really curious to see what wasyesterday, his average in Samorin, if I read correctly was in the 353-354watts area.

Edit: There's a lot more pictures of his bike position if you go to finisherpix
Last edited by: MTL: Jun 26, 18 10:58
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Re: New Lionel bike position? [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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James, i agree 100% and this is where most people get lost and confused.


jkhayc wrote:
Canuck1 wrote:
Sorry you are simply wrong with that comment - he beat frodo at kona last year in what was clearly frodos inability to ride with the best and he paid for it and blew.

And he finished second in what is now the second fastest all time kona time......jesus man I think he's only lost 3 races in the past 2+ years....one to brownlee, kona to lang and frodo. All the while beating most of the worlds best at 70.3 and ironman.

I'm far from a sanders fan but sometimes the lack of just giving the guy his credit is annoying (almost as much as the love for him the other way).

Can we not be balanced or at least informed.


lionel being good and making questionable decisions (to outsiders) are not mutually exclusive.

many pros who experiment with the boundaries of their physical envelope insofar as aero position find themselves going back to a non super duper unbelievably aero fit at some point.

also, switching to a small frame was probably not the best way for lionel to achieve a "more aero" position.

Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching



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Re: New Lionel bike position? [MTL] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe the biggest key moment of last years Kona for Lionel was when he got dropped by Wurf and Sebi down Hawi due to his lack of bike handling skills. We can only speculate the effects of that massive effort he did to bridge the gap back to wurf had on Lionel but it could have been the difference on the marathon.

If you have ever ridden a frame too small while riding extremely steep like he does, the first thing you notice is a substantial lack of control of the bike going high speeds compared to a frame that actually fits you. All of your weight is on the front end due to riding so steep and running out of reach. I struggle to see how this new bike fit helps him get down Hawi with the super fast guys this year.

If you followed Sunday's race you noticed Lionel didn't start to ride like Lionel until after the first big descent at mile 10. Again we can only speculate that he might have lost some time on the descent once again but I find it hard to accept that Lionel didn't crush it the first 8 miles like he typically does and instead road conservative until half way thru.
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