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SCOTUS Decision - Warrant needed to obtain cellphone records of location
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Once again, the law struggles to keep up with technology. This one is a bit screwy. Ruling issued today, Friday, June 22.

Over 40 years ago, SCOTUS created the "third-party doctrine," which states the 4th Amendment does not protect records or information an individual voluntarily shares with a 3rd party. Today, SCOTUS ruled that, despite this doctrine, policy need a warrant to obtain cell-site location information - a record of cell towers with which a cellphone is connected. Chief Justice John Roberts joined the 4 liberal justices in pointing to "seismic shifts in digital technology" which have allowed wireless carriers to collect "deeply revealing" information about cellphone owners that "should be protected" by the Constitution.

Roberts claimed this was a narrow ruling and left open the prospect that police might not need a warrant to get information about where someone was on the day that a crime was committed. But the he dissenting justices, who complained that it is likely to imperil, in the words of Justice Samuel Alito, “many legitimate and valuable investigative practices on which law enforcement has rightfully come to rely.”

The case came to SCOTUS from the Circuit and involved the case of Timothy Carpenter, Carpenter was convicted and sentenced to almost 116 years in prison for his role in a series of armed robberies in Ohio and Michigan. Law-enforcement officials used cell-site records from his cellphone provider to place him in the vicinity of the crimes. Carpenter argued that the jury should not hear about those records because the government had not obtained a warrant for them. A federal appeals court upheld his conviction, explaining that the government was not required to seek a warrant because Carpenter could not have expected cellphone records maintained by his service provider to remain private. This morning the Supreme Court reversed that ruling.

IMO, this ruling is a bit dangerous. The third-party doctrine has been in effect for over 40 years and has been enforce, basically without challenge, for most of that time. Now, I understand technology changes the playing field to some extent. But, we are getting dangerously close to hamgstringing law enforcement here.

Here is the complete decision: https://www.supremecourt.gov/...7pdf/16-402_h315.pdf

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: SCOTUS Decision - Warrant needed to obtain cellphone records of location [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with you on the spirit tragedy.

But here I'm with Roberts and the lib black sheets. And I was down on Roberts after the internet sales tax case (South Dakota v. Wayfair). Though I am bummed that I'll be paying more for my Amazon and Ebay purchases, the old physical presence rule doesn't make a lick of sense today. Ebay and Amazon are present in Alabama.

For the same reason, I like the decision in Carpenter v. U.S. Why when I was a kid would anyone have a expectation that no one was listening to my telephone calls? I'm thinking of the black and white movies of switchboard operators listening to conversations. Yet a warrant was needed in those days.

I recognize that I'm referring to an "expectation of privacy" type doctrine and not a "third party" rationale. But while you worry about hamstringing law enforcement, my sense is that law enforcement has many more tools and there is much less privacy to ordinary life these days.

Also I recognize that a warrant is still needed to listen to conversations (unless you are working for someone running for President), but it bugs me that by living with ubiquitous and basic device of modern life (cell phone), a person has heretofore effectively consented to having his location tracked by the government.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: SCOTUS Decision - Warrant needed to obtain cellphone records of location [H-] [ In reply to ]
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H- wrote:
it bugs me that by living with ubiquitous and basic device of modern life (cell phone), a person has heretofore effectively consented to having his location tracked by the government.

Agree with H. Disagree with JSA's concern.
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Re: SCOTUS Decision - Warrant needed to obtain cellphone records of location [H-] [ In reply to ]
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Yes pretty much that. And they still can find your location if they get a warrant.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: SCOTUS Decision - Warrant needed to obtain cellphone records of location [H-] [ In reply to ]
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I hear ya and you make good points. I’m looking at it from more of a pure legal sense. The third party doctrine has been the law for nearly my entire life. In addition, a person has very little privacy rights when in public. So those two doctrines should have determined the case.

In addition, you can avoid this tracking by turning off and/or leaving your phone or using a burner phone.

So, I agree with you but am conflicted.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: SCOTUS Decision - Warrant needed to obtain cellphone records of location [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Local sheriffs are running around hoovering up cell data with Stingrays. Yeah yeah ‘if you’re not doing anything wrong you’ve nothing to hide!’ That’s some stateist bullshit.

Steve
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Re: SCOTUS Decision - Warrant needed to obtain cellphone records of location [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
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Steve Hawley wrote:
Local sheriffs are running around hoovering up cell data with Stingrays. Yeah yeah ‘if you’re not doing anything wrong you’ve nothing to hide!’ That’s some stateist bullshit.

x2.
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Re: SCOTUS Decision - Warrant needed to obtain cellphone records of location [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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I'm too lazy to read the entire ruling and didn't hear on last night's news, but hiw does this ruling affect cell location searches for missing persons? The time it takes to get a warrant could be the time between life or death of someone.

--------------------------
The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
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Re: SCOTUS Decision - Warrant needed to obtain cellphone records of location [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
I'm too lazy to read the entire ruling and didn't hear on last night's news, but hiw does this ruling affect cell location searches for missing persons? The time it takes to get a warrant could be the time between life or death of someone.

It doesn't. It is limited to information used for criminal investigations. This ruling does not impact missing persons, emergencies, etc.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: SCOTUS Decision - Warrant needed to obtain cellphone records of location [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
I hear ya and you make good points. I’m looking at it from more of a pure legal sense. The third party doctrine has been the law for nearly my entire life. In addition, a person has very little privacy rights when in public. So those two doctrines should have determined the case.

In addition, you can avoid this tracking by turning off and/or leaving your phone or using a burner phone.

So, I agree with you but am conflicted.

I understand your concerns. But any time the SCOTUS finds the 4th amendment it makes me happy.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: SCOTUS Decision - Warrant needed to obtain cellphone records of location [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
In addition, you can avoid this tracking by turning off and/or leaving your phone or using a burner phone.

Sure. Or you could avoid it by not having a cell phone at all, but of course we know that just isn't practical for most people. Neither is having your cell phone turned off for any significant period of time, or leaving your phone at home, since those thing would defeat the entire purpose behind having a cell phone to begin with.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: SCOTUS Decision - Warrant needed to obtain cellphone records of location [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
Quote:
In addition, you can avoid this tracking by turning off and/or leaving your phone or using a burner phone.

Sure. Or you could avoid it by not having a cell phone at all, but of course we know that just isn't practical for most people. Neither is having your cell phone turned off for any significant period of time, or leaving your phone at home, since those thing would defeat the entire purpose behind having a cell phone to begin with.

If you are stupid enough to commit a series of crimes with your cellphone on you, you get what you deserve.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: SCOTUS Decision - Warrant needed to obtain cellphone records of location [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Quote:
In addition, you can avoid this tracking by turning off and/or leaving your phone or using a burner phone.


Sure. Or you could avoid it by not having a cell phone at all, but of course we know that just isn't practical for most people. Neither is having your cell phone turned off for any significant period of time, or leaving your phone at home, since those thing would defeat the entire purpose behind having a cell phone to begin with.


If you are stupid enough to commit a series of crimes with your cellphone on you, you get what you deserve.

True, but of course, these laws don't only apply to those who commit crimes.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: SCOTUS Decision - Warrant needed to obtain cellphone records of location [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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I'm alright with the ruling.... sounds good to me
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