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Re: Gwen Jorgensen got 7th in the 10,000m at USA Championship 32.24 [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
her coach needs to think of her mental well being when choosing races because having her go head to head with Huddle in the 10k after her Mammoth stint may have been naive in that regard. //

This is what I was alluding to, if you are going to race someone, then prepare them for that particular race. Doesnt mean changing the training plan much or mileage, just make sure she is mostly rested and has a decent chance at a good race. Sure she fell off Molly's scorching pace, but she also let 5 more ladies run away from here too, and barley out kicked the next one.


I just think for"some" athletes, it is not really doing anything positive to throw them into races broken down and tired. But there are some that can do fine with that mentally, they actually thrive on it. I just dont know where Gwen's head is in this new sport of hers. I would tend to pick races that she could be in the hunt for, which so far seems to be the case. Maybe she was rested for this race, I dont really know, but sounds like perhaps not too much..

If you want to be the best, you have to race the best.
Of course you should race against the best competition you can get. You learn nothing from winning races with slow runners.

How good will Gwen be as a runner? We do not know yet.
But we know that it has been done before.
Ingrid Kristiansen was a top xc-skiing racer before she changed to pure running.
Her times are still pretty amazing.

I think it is cool that Gwen is trying to do something she loves.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen got 7th in the 10,000m at USA Championship 32.24 [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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Her indoor 5,000m was impressive but also not that surprising when you imagine here tri training.

I don’t understand all of the racing. Becoming a marathoner takes time. These short camps followed by races, looking st Pittsburg and now USA Champs, is possibly a poor strategy. Again, citing the best marathoners since the 70’s, they go away for 5+ months to build their base strength. Lydiard’s approach is the obvious example, but how does Gwynn’s approach compare to Deena’s under Vigil? I see glaring issues, do you guys?

http://www.coolrunning.com/...omy-of-a-medal.shtml

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen got 7th in the 10,000m at USA Championship 32.24 [marklemcd] [ In reply to ]
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marklemcd wrote:
ToBeasy wrote:
marklemcd wrote:
CU427 wrote:
Brandes wrote:
Agreed. These races are important but they are not the goal for Gwen. These results are good for her as she gains more motivation and experience for what she needs.

This 10k was a championship style race. The races she did well in the past were not this style. Success in Championship style races require experience, which she is trying to learn. When she gets to Marathon Trials and possible 10k Olympic trials, it will be the same style of racing.

Also, the competition was much better at this race and if she was off her game by the slightest %, it would be shown.

The one downside that i continue to hear is the obsession with a certain mileage. Jerry's group is known for mileage and it didn't take long for her to ramp up the mileage. I just wonder if that jump from her low mileage approach to a goal of 100+MPW will make her or break her. The videos we've seen always show her rolling that achillies/PF.

Gwen will be fine. She'll continue to get better. I'm rooting for her


She also had a baby between sports, so there are more variables then we see from within the performance. Everyone responds to pregnancy differently and I know she struggled a lot post partum with her training.

I would agree on the downside you mentioned as well. Another potential problem area I see is her lack of really any muscle mass. Simply going off what I see visually and what I understand what she is doing for mileage, I worry a bit about her durability. IMO she needs some muscle mass to be able to sustain that type of mileage. Especially now that that great majority of her aerobic training is now weight bearing with running as it wasn't previously. I think she is treading a fine line, but that is what comes with performing at that level. I just feel that she has always had a very good grasp on these areas and might be letting go a bit too much.


This is all wrong. You do not win a marathon carrying extra weight. She’s already at a huge disadvantage for being taller than most.


You will be faster with 5 extra pounds than with 1 pound underweight. And I mean underweight not based on some silly bmi chart or something like that but being below what your individual lowest performance weight is.

You need to be fit and light. But at a certain point everything just falls apart. Of course you need to be very lean to get to that point. So it is not all too common.


And I am confident that one of the best coaches in the world with a large backing had a better idea of what the right weight and muscle makeup is for her than random posters on an Internet forum.

Again I never made any mention about her coach and his involvement in this, it was just an observation of a *potential* worry from afar based on my experiences coaching female runners without any real hard factual information. And yes even some of the best coaches in the world make mistakes sometimes. At that level of competition even doing an extra 200 on the track in one training session could lead to injury or problems, I've seen it happen.

But I would never tell a female athlete that you cannot carry extra weight. Weight management is a very tricky topic and you need to be very careful in what you say and how you address it to athletes.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen got 7th in the 10,000m at USA Championship 32.24 [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Gwen’s best sport is triathlon. I view her move to running as a way to further her brand, make money, and spend more time with her family. I wish her the best but I don’t think she can parlay a world-class run leg in triathlon into anything better than elite level as a runner. I hope she comes back to triathlon where she truly is world class.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen got 7th in the 10,000m at USA Championship 32.24 [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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I am pretty sure she is still breast feeding as well, which will cause fatigue.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen got 7th in the 10,000m at USA Championship 32.24 [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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I was watching the race track side with someone who has also seen a lot of track races and we both agreed that Gwen looked tired from the gun. She just had very little pep and looked to be fighting the pace even in the early miles. If you look at Huddle or Hall or any of the women who finished ahead of her, Gwen has a lot of excessive movement in her upper body which is only going to become a bigger issue as she moves to the half and full marathon. With the excessive shoulder and arm movement, she's going to use a lot of extra energy. She still has some work to do but she has made great progress with her 15:15/31:55.

Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

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Re: Gwen Jorgensen got 7th in the 10,000m at USA Championship 32.24 [Stumps] [ In reply to ]
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She stopped breast feeding 2 weeks prior. I'm sure it had some effect though including her own diet and also emotionally (positive or negative?).

Here's the interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9i3xld9ABk
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen got 7th in the 10,000m at USA Championship 32.24 [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting result for her.

I would have thought she would have done "better", but every race and situation is different. Some said she ran faster, a few months ago, and that's true, but this was a championship meet (place matters more), perhaps a bit of extra nerves, and from what I heard it was not ideal conditions - high humidity and windy!

Also it's clear that Gwen has been in the process of gradually upping the mileage and she took no real down-time or significant taper, to run in this race. It sounded like it was a bit of a "last minute decision".

It's another step, but it's an important step. Running a great 10K - be it on the track or the road, is a great step up point and indicator of marathon potential. Note, I did say "potential" - beyond 20K in a marathon, is where things really start to happen, so even having a great 10K time, even a 1/2 marathon, time is not indicative that the marathon will be a slam-dunk for a runner! It's a bit of a different beast.

Will Gwen be great at it? We'll not know really, until she has had a couple of goes at a full marathon. She probably knows that herself. Thus, all you can do is commit to the preparation as best as you can.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen got 7th in the 10,000m at USA Championship 32.24 [ShawnF] [ In reply to ]
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If you look at Huddle or Hall or any of the women who finished ahead of her, Gwen has a lot of excessive movement in her upper body which is only going to become a bigger issue as she moves to the half and full marathon. With the excessive shoulder and arm movement, she's going to use a lot of extra energy


Yes - she reminds me a bit of . . . Paula Ratcliffe! :-)

Now not saying Gwen will get to that level, but Paula was a bit ungainly, but on the track, the road or cross-country, it did not seem to slow her down at all!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen got 7th in the 10,000m at USA Championship 32.24 [hubcaps] [ In reply to ]
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Here's the interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9i3xld9ABk //

Thanks for that link, so pretty much what I thought it would be. She was a little flat( could be several reasons already expressed here), and she made a few tactical errors in the group that caused her to burn matches she shouldn't have. Coming off breast feeding may or may not have been a factor, just throw it into another cause for being flat.


SO not a great or bad race really for what it was. I liked that she said she would love to run that exact race over again right now, tells me she has a handle on what made her flat and the mistakes tactically that can easily be fixed. I just hope she does whatever it takes to be well rested before the next race, whatever it is. Sounds like it will be on the road now, so tactics are not such a big deal(postion) but pace changes will be..IT would be nice for her psyche to get another good result in the bank with her early season ones. You can see she feels like she "should" be winning most these races, or at the very least sprinting for the wins.. I think she should be too...
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen got 7th in the 10,000m at USA Championship 32.24 [monty] [ In reply to ]
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.... another race, this time 2min back from Huddle at Beach to Beacon 10k.

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen got 7th in the 10,000m at USA Championship 32.24 [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe she was practicing marathon pace today.... but in seriousness, I just wonder if she needs to hunker down for a while with no races - take a page from the Deena/Vigil playbook: http://www.coolrunning.com/...omy-of-a-medal.shtml

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen got 7th in the 10,000m at USA Championship 32.24 [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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She mentioned in an instagram post about the race that.."I have loads of work in front of me but I think I'm starting to learn how to run a 10k with marathon tired legs." Obviously, being a competitor and professional, she is looking to place the best she can at every race but I believe these races are for her to get used to running at speed on tired legs instead of the goal of winning.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen got 7th in the 10,000m at USA Championship 32.24 [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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FuzzyRunner wrote:
She mentioned in an instagram post about the race that.."I have loads of work in front of me but I think I'm starting to learn how to run a 10k with marathon tired legs." Obviously, being a competitor and professional, she is looking to place the best she can at every race but I believe these races are for her to get used to running at speed on tired legs instead of the goal of winning.

Yup. Keeping sponsors happy. Increasing quality in training with the odd race. And learning every time.

Coach Jerry is the man, he'll have Gwen peaking for her fall marathon. Guessing it'll be New York again given she hasn't announced it yet. (Vs Chicago/Berlin that everyone has announced)

https://www.strava.com/athletes/nbrowne1
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