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HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison
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What is standard in comparing an IM swim to a HI swim? The answer is obviously "it depends", but what are some rules of thumb that make sense? 2xHIM + 10%? 20%?

I swam 33:50 at 70.3 Boulder last year, and I swam 33:15 at St. George this year. I raced IM Boulder last week and figured I would probably finish around 1:08-1:10, but I was a little disappointed with a 1:13:05. Obviously course distance can impact this, as can the line you swim, draft, etc. I swam a pretty tight triangle last weekend and was always about 15 meters inside the buoy line (minus when i merged right for a legal turn). I tend to get overly optimistic when I am out there, and Sunday it was no different. The swim felt so smooth, I almost convinced myself mid-swim that I would see a 1:05 on my watch, lol.

So is the 1:13 a good, bad, or otherwise?

Probably doesn't matter since I won't do anymore IMs, but sort of just curious to see if my swim work paid off this build.
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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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milkman1982 wrote:
What is standard in comparing an IM swim to a HI swim? The answer is obviously "it depends", but what are some rules of thumb that make sense? 2xHIM + 10%? 20%?

I swam 33:50 at 70.3 Boulder last year, and I swam 33:15 at St. George this year. I raced IM Boulder last week and figured I would probably finish around 1:08-1:10, but I was a little disappointed with a 1:13:05. Obviously course distance can impact this, as can the line you swim, draft, etc. I swam a pretty tight triangle last weekend and was always about 15 meters inside the buoy line (minus when i merged right for a legal turn). I tend to get overly optimistic when I am out there, and Sunday it was no different. The swim felt so smooth, I almost convinced myself mid-swim that I would see a 1:05 on my watch, lol.

So is the 1:13 a good, bad, or otherwise?

Probably doesn't matter since I won't do anymore IMs, but sort of just curious to see if my swim work paid off this build.

Since you're not planning to do another IM, I wouldn't worry about it. I'm not a great swimmer, but have always found my IM times to be very close to 2X my HIMs. HIMs usually roll in around 32-33 minutes... IMs 1:04-1:07ish range. Which tells you that I just swim at the same pace no matter which distance.

The more important thing, in my opinion, how did that 1:13 set you up for the bike and run? If swim was super easy for you, quite possibly using 3-4 extra minutes on the swim saved you many times over the rest of the day.

So if you had a good to great day overall, I would be happy with what you did and not worry about it.
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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [Dan Funk] [ In reply to ]
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Dan Funk wrote:
milkman1982 wrote:
What is standard in comparing an IM swim to a HI swim? The answer is obviously "it depends", but what are some rules of thumb that make sense? 2xHIM + 10%? 20%?

I swam 33:50 at 70.3 Boulder last year, and I swam 33:15 at St. George this year. I raced IM Boulder last week and figured I would probably finish around 1:08-1:10, but I was a little disappointed with a 1:13:05. Obviously course distance can impact this, as can the line you swim, draft, etc. I swam a pretty tight triangle last weekend and was always about 15 meters inside the buoy line (minus when i merged right for a legal turn). I tend to get overly optimistic when I am out there, and Sunday it was no different. The swim felt so smooth, I almost convinced myself mid-swim that I would see a 1:05 on my watch, lol.

So is the 1:13 a good, bad, or otherwise?

Probably doesn't matter since I won't do anymore IMs, but sort of just curious to see if my swim work paid off this build.


Since you're not planning to do another IM, I wouldn't worry about it. I'm not a great swimmer, but have always found my IM times to be very close to 2X my HIMs. HIMs usually roll in around 32-33 minutes... IMs 1:04-1:07ish range. Which tells you that I just swim at the same pace no matter which distance.

The more important thing, in my opinion, how did that 1:13 set you up for the bike and run? If swim was super easy for you, quite possibly using 3-4 extra minutes on the swim saved you many times over the rest of the day.

So if you had a good to great day overall, I would be happy with what you did and not worry about it.

Yeah I look at it the broad picture, I felt good during the swim and not over-extended when starting the bike, which means it was for the most part a successful swim. A few minutes here and there though can really help move up the final AG rankings, and the faster you swim the more like competitors you are biking and running with. I was really hoping for 1:08, but such is life! No back to regularly scheduled 70.3 focus, where I only lose 3-4 minutes on the top of the AG.
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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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milkman1982 wrote:
What is standard in comparing an IM swim to a HI swim? The answer is obviously "it depends", but what are some rules of thumb that make sense? 2xHIM + 10%? 20%?

I swam 33:50 at 70.3 Boulder last year, and I swam 33:15 at St. George this year. I raced IM Boulder last week and figured I would probably finish around 1:08-1:10, but I was a little disappointed with a 1:13:05. Obviously course distance can impact this, as can the line you swim, draft, etc. I swam a pretty tight triangle last weekend and was always about 15 meters inside the buoy line (minus when i merged right for a legal turn). I tend to get overly optimistic when I am out there, and Sunday it was no different. The swim felt so smooth, I almost convinced myself mid-swim that I would see a 1:05 on my watch, lol.

So is the 1:13 a good, bad, or otherwise?

Probably doesn't matter since I won't do anymore IMs, but sort of just curious to see if my swim work paid off this build.

Unless you are doing the races in pools, it's impossible to predict accurately. I swam a 58 Ironman one year, and a 1.04 the next, despite being fitter.
Different courses, different days...
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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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When I did my 2 IM's they were faster than my HIM swims at that time.

I think it was something to do with being in the draft all of the time in an IM vs swimming by myself some of the time in a HIM
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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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Boulder is one loop 2.4 miles, so it gets pretty strung out. Not much draft on the inner line I swam either. Probably a factor
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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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I usually do 27:xx on my halves and 55-56 on the full distance. Ie, I swim my 'distance race pace'. I settle into something comfortably hard and that is usually that speed. I've tried going harder at HIMs but frankly I hate going hard, I suck at it. Thats why I race long course.

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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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HIM swims over the last few years are in the 31-33 range and I’ve done two IM’s in 1:06. I seem to have a pretty consistent OWS pace. I’m doing IMLP in five weeks and I should be in the 1:05-1:07 range based on a 33 HIM a couple weeks ago.

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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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HIM swim pr is 28:56. I swam 63 at IMSR last year and 62 at texas this year. I swam 69 at Boulder. I had a bad swim and altitude threw me off.
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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [NAB777] [ In reply to ]
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NAB777 wrote:
milkman1982 wrote:
What is standard in comparing an IM swim to a HI swim? The answer is obviously "it depends", but what are some rules of thumb that make sense? 2xHIM + 10%? 20%?

I swam 33:50 at 70.3 Boulder last year, and I swam 33:15 at St. George this year. I raced IM Boulder last week and figured I would probably finish around 1:08-1:10, but I was a little disappointed with a 1:13:05. Obviously course distance can impact this, as can the line you swim, draft, etc. I swam a pretty tight triangle last weekend and was always about 15 meters inside the buoy line (minus when i merged right for a legal turn). I tend to get overly optimistic when I am out there, and Sunday it was no different. The swim felt so smooth, I almost convinced myself mid-swim that I would see a 1:05 on my watch, lol.

So is the 1:13 a good, bad, or otherwise?

Probably doesn't matter since I won't do anymore IMs, but sort of just curious to see if my swim work paid off this build.


Unless you are doing the races in pools, it's impossible to predict accurately. I swam a 58 Ironman one year, and a 1.04 the next, despite being fitter.
Different courses, different days...

THIS^^^^. Tri swim courses vary all over the place in terms of distance, current or lack thereof, waves/surf, etc. My HIM times have been anywhere from 22-32 min with an average of around 26-27. Even the same race can have diff length swims over the yrs b/c often a diff person lays out the course each year. I did the Oly dist Memphis in May Tri 5 yrs in a row and my swim times varied from 20-24 min over that 5 years. Only in the pool, or in a pool-like OW (i.e., you swim say a 200 m stretch of open water with buoys every 25 m and you go back and forth over the 200 m for whatever distance you want) can you really measure improvement.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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It's actually pretty simple to figure out, not sure why people keep ignoring what is right in front of their faces. Forget about all the times in everyone's N=1 here, they mean absolutely nothing. Go to the pro swim results of each race you are comparing, see what they did, and then you can figure out how you did in comparison. Not just to them, but to yourself too.

And if you have some of the same exact pros doing each race, it gets even better. But if not, really is not a big deal, as most lead pack pros swim very close in time to other lead pack pros. Take the 1/2 times from your race, take the full times they did, and get a % difference in the double the time+. You can do it for several of the top times, throwing out any outliers. I wouldn't use the women though, they are more all over the map in the swims, where as the men are super consistent and have a much larger pool of athletes competing in these races..

It really is just simple math, you just have to look up a few records first, and then you will have the good/bad news...(-;
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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Your times match mine pretty closely: I would do a 33 or 34 for HIM and 73 for IM.
My (only) IM was 2 laps and with what felt like the same steady effort all the way around I did lap 1 in 33 mins with a total of 73 mins. Got to the bike feeling fine.
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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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Ignore the times and look at your percentile rank for the swim portion in your AG, provided comparison points have at least 100 competitors (as would most male AGs at a IM brand race) I guess alternatively, you could look at broader spectrum as well and look at all competitors or just all males. It fits my expectations given training, e.g. last year I trained like crazy for my first 70.3 in early June and ranked around 90th percentile for the swim, then I got lazy and swam much less and ranked i think in the 82nd percentile of my late August 70.3, the June 70.3 was only 14 seconds faster than the August 70.3

Monty- I agree the pro times would also be quite helpful as a comparison point, where there are pros

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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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The one and only way to know is to get a list of the people who did both races and compare yourself. What AG are you in?

Everything else is just uneducated guessing.
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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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hadukla wrote:
Ignore the times and look at your percentile rank for the swim portion in your AG, provided comparison points have at least 100 competitors (as would most male AGs at a IM brand race) I guess alternatively, you could look at broader spectrum as well and look at all competitors or just all males. It fits my expectations given training, e.g. last year I trained like crazy for my first 70.3 in early June and ranked around 90th percentile for the swim, then I got lazy and swam much less and ranked i think in the 82nd percentile of my late August 70.3, the June 70.3 was only 14 seconds faster than the August 70.3

Monty- I agree the pro times would also be quite helpful as a comparison point, where there are pros

this is how i evaluate everything, and how I determine where I need to focus training every year. my swim percentile was garbage last weekend compared to the two races I alluded to in the initial post. this means either a) broadly speaking swimmers are better at 140.6 vs 70.3, which seems hard to believe, b) my training simply didn't transfer over the full distance, or c) i had a bad swim

seems more and more clear that the answer is b).
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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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I think if you post the details of your training regimen, one of ST's fish (I am no fish, obviously) will help determine whether it was B or C, which I would do, if I were you as it would be good to know if it was a fluke.

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo
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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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hadukla wrote:
Ignore the times and look at your percentile rank for the swim portion in your AG, provided comparison points have at least 100 competitors

this is a decent way to do it...but the field of an IM is generally better than the field of a half. SO it could distort the IM swim negatively.
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Re: HIM Swim vs IM Swim - Time Comparison [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
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I actually think the type of swim start makes a difference. I seem to be much faster in Ironman swims due to the rolling start than I am in the battle royale that is the half iron wave starts. The last Ironman I did was in 2016, and that year I did a 35:48 swim at Galveston. I went 1:02:51 (30:00/32:51) at Lake Placid and followed it up with a 1:02:00 at Arizona a couple months later (and that was after getting off course on the way back in due to poor sighting). I can't seem to get under 35:00 in a half, yet I'm doing 1:02 in Ironman's. Go figure.
Last edited by: HoustonAg: Jun 18, 18 14:40
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