Why does Putin have to have something on Trump for Trump to demand this? Not saying he doesn't, but all you liberal types are are assuming that is the case. Regardless who is in the White House I think it would be beneficial to have another world power there.

Nothing. Bob Mueller has wasted $17 million trying to find something, but has come up with nothing. That’s because there’s …. nothing.

You may have a point - but if we're going to add a world power it should be China. Bigger economy and growing faster than Russia. Heck - places like Brazil, Australia, South Korea and Mexico have better cases to be part of the Global club before Russia. Russia has shown itself to be a poor global citizen (demagogue tendencies, seeding disorder to exploit political gain, propping up terrorist regimes), its declining in population and its economy is in deep trouble when you remove oil and military sales.

Trump either has a HUGE hard-on for bare-chested, strongman dictators or the Russian Mob/Regime has something juicy on him. Its entirely possible BOTH these things are true.

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Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

Oh, hey Jim. Good of you to drop by for your one post.

To quickly recap all the "nothing" (that we know of)...

Manafort: accused of conducting a conspiracy against the United States, money laundering, failure to disclose himself as a foreign agent, income tax evasion and bank fraud. Now witness tampering.

Gates: Has admitted to lying to investigators, and has also plead guilty to conspiracy, foreign agent and tax evasion charges.

Papadopoulos: Has admitted to lying to investigators about contact with a professor known to have ties to the Kremlin, who told him about the "dirt" the Russians had on Clinton.

Flynn: Has admitted to lying to investigators about his contacts with former Russian ambassador to the U.S., Sergey Kislyak, and how they discussed not “escalating” the situation regarding Russian sanctions put in place by President Barack Obama in response to Russia’s meddling.

Van der Zwaan: Admitted to making false statements to the special counsel and FBI about his interactions with Gates.

Then there's this summary of the five areas Mueller is looking into. Sorry it's so long, but, you know, there's a lot there.

Good chattin' with ya.

Also: the trump tower meeting. Which at best for the trump campaign shows attempted conspiracy (if nothing was given). Like you cant just forget that this happened, even if nothing was given, still solicitation or attempted conspiracy.

And all the meetings setting up back channels via eric prince.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Russia doesn't even make hardly anything, not even export Ladas any more. Other than military and oil they have nothing. They don't deserve to be in the club, so for what reason is it so important to Trump to have them there?

Not to mention, they flat out lied about the meeting repeatedly.

It wasn't like a little lie, it was a big fat f*cking whopper of a lie.

And it's looking like Trump Sr. was behind the lie.

He has peepee tapes. I heard it on Maddow.

Also, I hear an indictment is just around the corner!!

#Resist!!!

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My training

Jim @ LOTO, MO wrote:

Nothing. Bob Mueller has wasted $17 million trying to find something, but has come up with nothing. That’s because there’s …. nothing.

A single F-35A fighter for the USAF costs $94 million.

https://www.f35.com/about/cost

President Trump's golf playing has cost the US taxpayer almost $68 million.

https://trumpgolfcount.com/#costModal

$17 million is peanuts in the US government's budget.

(We'll see you again in a week or so, Jim)

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

That is really something that i cant understand when people say "there is nothing!"

1) They find pretty damning evidence (NY times).
2) The other party says thats the damning evidence doesnt exist (trump jr).
3) the other party initially lies about the damning evidence (trump jr and adoptions.
4) a couple of more lies about the damning evidence (trump sr).
5) then people go 1-4 doesnt exist!

Why even engage the guy. By his admission, all his posts are drive by trolls, as he doesn't even look back to see what if any responses there might have been.

If Dan were really serious about encouraging legitimate discussion here, Jim would have been banned long before Forge and Duffy. (Don't miss wendywave that much.)

At the very least they attempted to work with Russia to get help from Russia, that is a fact.

Then we are just supposed to take their word that they did not succeed and that nothing else happened in the subsequent meetings they also lied about. But no, they are telling the truth when they say nothing happened.

Jim is just a wee bit blind when it comes to Trump.

But back in 2007, he wrote a very nice race report on the Silverman Triathlon (RIP). He's not all bad.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Silverman_RR._Very_late%2C_because_it's_very_long._P1596061/?search_string=silverman%20triathlon%202007%20race%20report#p1596061

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

tbh most of the Ball Washers do little more than swing by for one or two posts claiming this is all a witch hunt.

stal, efernand, jwbeuk...

Look beyond the headlines, and you'll find reason to have problems with all those:
Manafort and Gates sins were years before Trump, Papadopoulos looks to have been set up, Flynn, as we have discussed is kind of in limbo. So those things that Mueller has done so far carry little weight with me. What else he has may be a completely different story. The lies around the poor attempt to get Hillary dirt are the worst thing so far, in my mind, against the Trump team. Add in all the intelligence community lies, bias, lack of transparency with congress, and things like the Carter Page story ( my take is he was a convenient way to monitor Trump team communications).
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https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2018/06/07/pre-dossier_carter_page_russian_spy__or_fbi_honor_scout_444284.html
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Trumps deference to Putin is a mystery as well, I could easily see why Obama did so much stupid stuff because he wanted a deal with Iran, and he got it, but what Trump gets from constantly soft-handing (with the exception some military moves and FP that has bent Putin out of shape) Putin, I just don't see, and yes, it makes me suspicious.

I'm sure you understand that it's Mueller's mandate to investigate crimes he discovers in the course of his Russia investigation.

As for your assertion that Carter Page was a convenient way to spy on Trump, first, he was under investigation in 2013, long before he was in the Trump team, and second, Trump hired him. No-one planted him in there.

Trump also hired Manafort....

Why does Putin have to have something on Trump for Trump to demand this? Not saying he doesn't, but all you liberal types are are assuming that is the case.

I assume it is because I've read a detailed book on that examined the Steele dossier and Trumps relationship with Russia going back to the 1980's. It's not a guess.

Regardless who is in the White House I think it would be beneficial to have another world power there.

Then why not China since they have the 2nd biggest economy while Russia's is only the 11th in terms of GDP?

Nothing. Bob Mueller has wasted $17 million trying to find something, but has come up with nothing. That’s because there’s …. nothing.



There has been nothing in the Trump dossier has been dis-proven so far and based on the detailed information I've seen, there is a lot more there than you think. Steele is an ex-British agent and he doesn't just make things up.

Yes but if you can suspend reality and imagine that every actor at every turn is a Dem plant then there is nothing there!

Just to pick one thing. Trump has taken a hard line on Iran, going for increased sanctions, nuking the nuke deal, etc. Fine. I don't have a huge problem with that.

But who's Iran's biggest ally? Probably Russia. Iran can survive Western sanctions because they have Russia as a massive trading partner. $30B energy deal. Russia is going to go right on trading with Iran. Russia is apparently working with the Quds force in Syria, etc. So in this case Russia is probably directly subverting U.S. interests in the area. Because U.S. and Russia are geopolitical rivals, and Russia doesn't want to see the Middle East turn broadly pro-U.S.

Anyway. So you wouldn't want to reward Russia for all this. Right? Now it could be argued that if you let Russia back into the G7 you gain leverage for negotiating limits on Russia's trade with Iran and North Korea.

But that's not Trump's style, so far. He's a unilateralist, not a multi-lateralist. If he we were going to deal with Putin, his style would be to do it one-on-one, not engage a coalition of Western partners.

It just makes little sense to present Russia with gifts and get nothing in return.

So maybe there's some private deal he made with Putin/Russia over Iran or North Korea?

And that's just one thing. There's still Ukraine/Crimea. Assassinating journalists in the West. Etc.

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No, Page came to the attention of the FBI in 2013. The reason was Russian operatives tried to manipulate him for information. He reported that to the FBI, and actually testified against the Russian in court. If you can find where Page was under investigation, please post a link, I'm interested to know, but from what I've read so far, my take is Page was an easy path in because the FBI could characterize their history with him in any way they chose. There could certainly be more that the FBI had on Page that has not been disclosed, but that's the kind of thing that the pub side is screaming to find out in their search for the genesis of the Trump-Russia investigation.
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"Page first came to the FBI’s attention in 2013, when a Russian suspected to be linked to the country’s intelligence agencies identified him in a recorded conversation as someone who might be able to be leveraged for information. The Post’s original report about the Page warrant noted that this incident was part of the warrant application, which isn’t mentioned in the newly released memo. There may also have been other components of the warrant that haven’t yet been made public."
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/02/02/how-important-is-carter-page-to-the-russia-investigation/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.541a7207fca1

You are saying that Page was (innocently) contacted by Russian secret service agents and reported it to the FBI and the FBI considered him a reliable informant?

He's seems quite proud of his Kremlin ties here:
https://www.google.com/...e-russia-2013-letter

There were apparently other contacts between Page and Russian operatives that have not been fully disclosed:

"Among other things, the application cited contacts that he had with a Russian intelligence operative in New York City in 2013, officials said. Those contacts had earlier surfaced in a federal espionage case brought by the Justice Department against the intelligence operative and two other Russian agents. In addition, the application said Page had other contacts with Russian operatives that have not been publicly disclosed, officials said."

Anyway, the point of all this is to debate whether or not there is any there there. Carter Page is a bumbling idiot but he certainly gave authorities reason to monitor his activities. And he was just one of many Trump campaign actors who have had Russian ties and many have lied about them.

Looks very much like it might become that. If Trump wants an isolationist policy it looks like that's what the G6 is prepared to give him. Not a "win" for anyone, USA included IMHO.

https://www.cnn.com/...te-change/index.html