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Phyisiological over training
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In an earlier thread it is stated this is very hard to do. Are there indicators, regular illness, inability to hit normal paces.
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Re: Phyisiological over training [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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ACSM and ECSS Position statement on overtraining.
Should be freely downloadable.


http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/23247672

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com
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Re: Phyisiological over training [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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I had never-ending fatigue, significant weight gain (8+ lbs), hormone issues, and a crazy depressed heart rate. Took over six months to recover from.
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Re: Phyisiological over training [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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rubik wrote:
I had never-ending fatigue, significant weight gain (8+ lbs), hormone issues, and a crazy depressed heart rate. Took over six months to recover from.

similar experience. Blood tests should show you some red flags. Speak with a medical professional that understands athletes.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Phyisiological over training [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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I went through a bad breakup in college so fixed it with training.

Ended up being way more depressed, losing 30 lbs, no gain in progress after a certain point, getting sick A LOT, and could never not feel refreshed after waking up. turns out - once I stopped. I felt GREAT. Totally new world and man. I thought it was the breakup. Turns out it was over training made me feel 100x worse.

now this was my training. About a half marathon a day, then swim maybe 3000-4000 yards, then weight lift for 2 or so hours with naps in between. I worked out so much i never had an appetite. Lost weight like a mountain loses snow in an avalanche. I was so depressed it was absurd. be careful
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Re: Phyisiological over training [Twinkie] [ In reply to ]
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Twinkie wrote:
I went through a bad breakup in college so fixed it with training.

Ended up being way more depressed, losing 30 lbs, no gain in progress after a certain point, getting sick A LOT, and could never not feel refreshed after waking up. turns out - once I stopped. I felt GREAT. Totally new world and man. I thought it was the breakup. Turns out it was over training made me feel 100x worse.

now this was my training. About a half marathon a day, then swim maybe 3000-4000 yards, then weight lift for 2 or so hours with naps in between. I worked out so much i never had an appetite. Lost weight like a mountain loses snow in an avalanche. I was so depressed it was absurd. be careful


Ditto this mate. Failed marriage here where the lady faked a long term serious illness that I believed was real for a year. Then it all came down when her girlfriend told me the truth about her lies and that she had been cheating on me/aborted our or someone else's child. Very depressed and buried myself in training. I'm 181 cm and went down to 61 kg (should be 66 or so at race weight, 72 kg in the off season). I would train myself in to the ground every day just so I didn't have to deal with the hurt and pain. At first I was okay with the weight loss because my w/kg went up and my paces increased. Then frequent sickness. Then depressed heart rate which I initially thought was due to increased fitness, until it became abundantly clear it was not. Power started dropping. Then the fatigue and malaise non stop. I would wake up every day after 10 hours of sleep and still be exhausted. When I finally got medical counsel and had blood work done things were not great. I destroyed my Testosterone levels and overall health for 6 months. Through adequate rest and a smart and gradual taper back in to training I eventually recovered a few years ago.

Please look after yourself and find a doctor who deals with athletes.
Last edited by: turdburgler: Jun 7, 18 9:37
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Re: Phyisiological over training [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting. Read through threads where Desert Dude wrote that few people would Physiologically over train. Psychological over training was identified as an issue.

Found it common to end up with higher temperature, congested and prone to colds and infections. The lead indicator would be fatigue then generally swimming followed by blocked noses or chesty coughs.

Could just be I get easily sick. When I back the training off by resting, generally those issues resolve. When I push on, tend to break.


Alan Couzens posted that you need to be doing 20 hours a week to have any hope at KQ, and if you get sick for two weeks that will have a serious impact on fitness.


Maybe some people (me) don't have the genetics or constitution for Ironman, excellence.
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Re: Phyisiological over training [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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So..."Anything is possible" isn't true.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Phyisiological over training [len] [ In reply to ]
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Probably, when you look at KQ, there are no Nineties show up to IM Japan, drop a 1030 and get a slot options.

Genetics, is part of it. Some of that is not getting sick, or over trained. Though two very good coaches suggest it is not the case and everyone can do it.

Over Training is real and think managing that is critical.
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Re: Phyisiological over training [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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turdburgler wrote:
Twinkie wrote:
I went through a bad breakup in college so fixed it with training.

Ended up being way more depressed, losing 30 lbs, no gain in progress after a certain point, getting sick A LOT, and could never not feel refreshed after waking up. turns out - once I stopped. I felt GREAT. Totally new world and man. I thought it was the breakup. Turns out it was over training made me feel 100x worse.

now this was my training. About a half marathon a day, then swim maybe 3000-4000 yards, then weight lift for 2 or so hours with naps in between. I worked out so much i never had an appetite. Lost weight like a mountain loses snow in an avalanche. I was so depressed it was absurd. be careful


Ditto this mate. Failed marriage here where the lady faked a long term serious illness that I believed was real for a year. Then it all came down when her girlfriend told me the truth about her lies and that she had been cheating on me/aborted our or someone else's child. Very depressed and buried myself in training. I'm 181 cm and went down to 61 kg (should be 66 or so at race weight, 72 kg in the off season). I would train myself in to the ground every day just so I didn't have to deal with the hurt and pain. At first I was okay with the weight loss because my w/kg went up and my paces increased. Then frequent sickness. Then depressed heart rate which I initially thought was due to increased fitness, until it became abundantly clear it was not. Power started dropping. Then the fatigue and malaise non stop. I would wake up every day after 10 hours of sleep and still be exhausted. When I finally got medical counsel and had blood work done things were not great. I destroyed my Testosterone levels and overall health for 6 months. Through adequate rest and a smart and gradual taper back in to training I eventually recovered a few years ago.

Please look after yourself and find a doctor who deals with athletes.



woooo brutal! glad you made it through that one! Not many would have.

So to the original OP. Yes it is possible and probably a whole lot more likely than people figure. Most just dont notice it as "over training" and relate some other issue to the symptoms.
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Re: Phyisiological over training [Twinkie] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for this. It is attributed as not wanting it enough, some people just get sick, don't have the genetics to handle the load required.

The evidence in this thread suggests some people want it way too much and have compromised significant aspects of their lives for something that is not simply a matter of wanting it.
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Re: Phyisiological over training [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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I think many folks dip into "overreaching" thinking it's overtraining. That, I'd guess gives overtraining a "too common" diagnosis. (It doesn't help that there isn't a "true" marker that says "yes, you are overtrained.") That said, I'd also guess that it's at the same time a bit more common that people give it credit.

You don't have to be doing 20+ hours of training. Your body is stressed many ways throughout the day... all of them can contribute. Add to that that many athletes don't fuel properly and, at least in my (younger) days treated myself like shit overall (for months/years) and it's not as difficult to do as some folks think.

Again, a knowledgeable doctor can really help

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Phyisiological over training [Twinkie] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks and I'm glad you got through yours as well. In the end I was ultimately in an unhappy relationship and though I wish the circumstances of how everything went down were different, it was a blessing to get away from her and in the long run everything has worked out so much better. I eventually found out she was hiding £200,000 debt from me as well (thankfully it was under her name and I didn't have to assume any of it).

I agree on most people not noticing it when it affects them and when they realize something isn't right it is too late. I honestly didn't think it was a problem getting so thin. For that short period of time w/kg got crazy good and that made me happy. Similarly with the heart rate. At rest it went down to the low 30s and during strenuous exercise I couldn't get it to touch 150 at one point. I've always had a low resting heart rate, but I remember a brief month long period when it first started where I thought "damn, I'm getting so fit." Everything unraveled after that. My immune system was so shot that I was always ill with something and I lost 100 watts on the bike in 4 weeks. Getting back to good took time and patience.

Sorry for the sod story. I hope anyone who is dealing with over training much success in their pursuit of overcoming this.

Last edited by: turdburgler: Jun 7, 18 11:31
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Re: Phyisiological over training [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Morelock wrote:
You don't have to be doing 20+ hours of training.

Yeah, I think the biggest myth - suggested in the OP - is that only people doing pro-grade training volume get overtraining

From my experience, I'd speculate it's more correlated to hugely negative Training Stress Balance. And you can get a hugely negative TSB as a couch potato in the first week back doing 10 high-intensity hours in a week. Or as a pro doing 50 hours.

And - as you mention - other stresses not well measured by strain gages can also contribute.
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Re: Phyisiological over training [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Is over trained caused by over reaching.
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Re: Phyisiological over training [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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stevie g wrote:
Is over trained caused by over reaching.

Not exactly... overreaching is a step on the path to overtraining though... but overreaching at it's simplest is pretty much necessary to see growth (exercise, recover, get stronger, repeat) in any sport. The trouble is when you are not paying enough attention to your body to keep that recovery in balance with the stress.In general overreaching hasn't become chronic yet. Taking a step back/down from training load or a little time off (a week or less usually) should allow you to recover if you're overreaching. OTS requires extended periods (in many cases ~ 6mo or more often of almost no activity, with "long term" effects not really understood at this point) to get back to where you can handle a training load.

This was a post I did about my experience. Might be helpful.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Phyisiological over training [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks that was good and instructive. I will take heed as I can see mistakes I make. The 20 hour week is not gold despite some of the coaches/marketers.

Being health and consistent is key, knowing when we are about to go into illness or over reaching and choosing to rest or go easy
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