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Re: First Time Latex Review [C2B] [ In reply to ]
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C2B wrote:
For races I'm running a Flo disc/90 or disc/30 depending on wind conditions. The latex tubes are going into the race wheels. I've got 23mm Continental 4000 S II's on them. I basically went with what Flo used in their original wind tunnel testing. I'll have one test ride before race day with the latex tubes.


For commuting, on the same bike, I've got Shimano RS10's with Gatorskins and an extra a kevlar insert with butyl tubes. A few years ago I read a bunch of threads here and even with my size factored in everything seemed to indicate I should be running pressure in the 90's. I started out around 90psi, then 95psi, then 100psi and then said f' it and jumped to 110psi. The problem was that I kept pinch flatting at the lower pressures. From the 90 to 100psi experiments over 6 months I probably pinch flatted at least 6 times, always with the tell tale snake bite holes. Once I jumped to 110psi I never pinch flatted again, but did keep getting occasional flats from small sharp rocks, glass, etc. so then I added the extra kevlar and haven't flatted since on a commute. The guys at the bike shop were thoroughly confused when I kept flatting on Gatorskins. I even changed out the tires at one point in case I got a bad set and it kept happening.


I've never flatted in a race, but it is the commuting experience that has me pumping the race setup to the same pressure.

We're way off topic, but here goes anyways.

It sounds like you thought things through pretty well and approached it rationally. The big difference between your RS10 wheels and the Flo wheels (assuming they are the recent version) is that the inner width of the Flo wheels is ~1/3 larger. It will be a bit harder to get pinch flats at the same pressure on the Flo wheels, so it's safe to say you could lower the pressure for a better ride and *likely* faster rolling on real-world roads on the Flo wheels.

Since you're going to ride once or twice on your race wheels with new tubes before relying on them in a race, it would be a good time to test pressures too. If you're running the same size 23 tires front and rear (sounds like a road bike) maybe try 10% less pressure in the front to account for different weight distribution? You could start with your 110 rear and 100 front to see how that works. Maybe even drop another 5 psi front and rear? Going down to 90f and 100 rear could be pushing it too far at 230. Going to a 25 rear somewhere in the future probably won't affect aerodynamics to any noticeable degree and you could run both tires at the same pressure to give you slightly more comfort and better rolling out back.

If you're on the previous generation Flo's, I think that advice still holds as the inner width was around 17mm as opposed to the 15mm of the most recent Shimano RS10's.
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Re: First Time Latex Review [C2B] [ In reply to ]
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C2B wrote:
I read a bunch of threads here and even with my size factored in everything seemed to indicate I should be running pressure in the 90's. I started out around 90psi, then 95psi, then 100psi and then said f' it and jumped to 110psi. The problem was that I kept pinch flatting at the lower pressures. From the 90 to 100psi experiments over 6 months I probably pinch flatted at least 6 times, always with the tell tale snake bite holes. Once I jumped to 110psi I never pinch flatted again


I've never flatted in a race, but it is the commuting experience that has me pumping the race setup to the same pressure.


Same experience. At 163 lbs, 90 psi (on a 17mm inner width rim and 23mm GP4000s) netted me 5 pinch flats in 5 different races. Now I never run below 95, and generally go 98/100 front/rear and haven't had a flat in two seasons of racing.

I also can't stand the squishy feeling of 90 psi or below in the front when standing up.
Last edited by: rubik: Jun 6, 18 9:50
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Re: First Time Latex Review [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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I just pumped mine to 100psi and went with it haha - I have always rode at 100psi on my bikes (170lbs now) and just leave it there. I never really thought about lower pressures for comfort....
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Re: First Time Latex Review [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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Hello teddygram and All,

Something to think about .....

http://www.velocityusa.com/...ccessories/veloplugs



Veloplugs

Why wrap your complete rim with a roll of heavy cloth tape when for less than half the weight you can use the Veloplug?

Tire mounting is easier with the Veloplug. Rim strips take up a lot of space making tires more difficult to mount. With the sleek and slippery Veloplug, a difficult to mount tire becomes easy.

Veloplugs will not rot, slip around or retain water when moisture enters the rim.

Save ~15 grams over cloth tape on a 32 spoke 700c wheel

Incredible blowout strength - takes well over 400psi

Spoke replacement is simplified as there is no need to remove a sticky strip. Just pop out the Veloplug over the offending spoke and pop it back in when repairs are complete. They can be used over and over.


Not for use with tubeless application.

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: First Time Latex Review [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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My veloplugs don't sit flush with the rim in three different rims I've tried them on. Have to cover them with electrical tape so the sharp edges don't cut the tubes, which kind of defeats the purpose.
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Re: First Time Latex Review [dangle] [ In reply to ]
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dangle wrote:
We're way off topic, but here goes anyways.

It sounds like you thought things through pretty well and approached it rationally. The big difference between your RS10 wheels and the Flo wheels (assuming they are the recent version) is that the inner width of the Flo wheels is ~1/3 larger. It will be a bit harder to get pinch flats at the same pressure on the Flo wheels, so it's safe to say you could lower the pressure for a better ride and *likely* faster rolling on real-world roads on the Flo wheels.

Since you're going to ride once or twice on your race wheels with new tubes before relying on them in a race, it would be a good time to test pressures too. If you're running the same size 23 tires front and rear (sounds like a road bike) maybe try 10% less pressure in the front to account for different weight distribution? You could start with your 110 rear and 100 front to see how that works. Maybe even drop another 5 psi front and rear? Going down to 90f and 100 rear could be pushing it too far at 230. Going to a 25 rear somewhere in the future probably won't affect aerodynamics to any noticeable degree and you could run both tires at the same pressure to give you slightly more comfort and better rolling out back.

If you're on the previous generation Flo's, I think that advice still holds as the inner width was around 17mm as opposed to the 15mm of the most recent Shimano RS10's.

Yeah, sorry for the tangent this is turning into, but...I really like the way you are thinking about my setup. FWIW, both wheel sets are a few years old. The Flo's are the carbon/aluminum combo. In any case, the Flo's are definitely wider so I like the rationale that I should be able to reduce air pressure based on that alone. Plus, if I remember correctly latex (when installed properly) is supposed to be less likely to pinch flat right? I've got low expectations for this weekend and it is only a sprint so it is the perfect time to experiment. Both tires are going to come down closer to 100psi, but I'm still thinking through whether to run them both at the same pressure or a little bit different. Thanks for the advice.

Back to the original purpose of the thread, I'm really hoping to have the same positive first time experience this weekend.
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Re: First Time Latex Review [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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Hello rubik and All,

To each his own ...

I have used Veloplugs with Vittoria latex tubes (and other brands occasionally) for many years ... work great ... no cut tubes ..... no tape on Veloplugs.

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: First Time Latex Review [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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nealhe wrote:
Hello rubik and All,

To each his own ...

I have used Veloplugs with Vittoria latex tubes (and other brands occasionally) for many years ... work great ... no cut tubes ..... no tape on Veloplugs.

Neal,

Thank you for sharing that for all to look at - I had actually put those in my cart to order and then remembered I had some Stans tape for my MTB.... I opted for the cheaper route that I am more familiar with!

Thanks for sharing for others however!
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Re: First Time Latex Review [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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rubik wrote:
lyrrad wrote:
Butyl
If you cannot feel the difference immediately when you fit latex, you must be brain dead or running thres so slow that nothing will make them good.

I can't feel an iota of difference in GP4000s or in Michelin Power Competition. But I probably ride a lot faster than you, so maybe I'm just humming over the pavement too quickly.

Ouch

My foray into time trialling at the age of 60
https://sixtyplustimetrialling.wordpress.com/
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Re: First Time Latex Review [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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rubik wrote:
lyrrad wrote:
Butyl
If you cannot feel the difference immediately when you fit latex, you must be brain dead or running thres so slow that nothing will make them good.

I can't feel an iota of difference in GP4000s or in Michelin Power Competition. But I probably ride a lot faster than you, so maybe I'm just humming over the pavement too quickly.

I quite honestly cannot feel the difference either but I can see a difference in power/speed required after the ride from my data.
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Re: First Time Latex Review [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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Has noone made a 100 mm valve latex inner tube yet btw? Can not be arsed to use a valve extender, but would switch if a 100 mm latex valve was made. It is there for butyl, and it is so nice and easy to use.
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Re: First Time Latex Review [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
I quite honestly cannot feel the difference either but I can see a difference in power/speed required after the ride from my data.

Opposite here. First time running latex this season and on first ride I could feel the difference in ride quality compared to butyl. But I can't tell the speed difference because I'm only running them currently on my Tri bike and ridden only in a couple of short TT's (10 milers). Did a TR program over the winter and have a 15% bump in ftp from last season so can't easily separate how much speed I gained from latex and how much is from the ftp bump. All I know is while I still haven't been able to match or best my PR on that TT course I am faster than I've been the last 3 seasons (still about 25s off that PR though but better than previous years where I was about 50-60s off that PR time).
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Re: First Time Latex Review [kyle h] [ In reply to ]
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Do you add any sealant into your latex tubes? I'm installing some for the first time this weekend and bought a bottle of Orange Seal. I've heard that it'll gum up your valve over time, though, so not sure if people add them for everyday riding or just before races.
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Re: First Time Latex Review [JonathanNYC] [ In reply to ]
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I don't add sealant to mine. I've always thought it was overkill but I leave things a little more to chance than the rest probably
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Re: First Time Latex Review [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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I have never ridden on latex before. I'm installing today to see if I can tell any difference. Same roads, same group ride ... I hope I can feel a difference. It would be nice to gain a few watts and a nicer ride :-)

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
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Re: First Time Latex Review [JonathanNYC] [ In reply to ]
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JonathanNYC wrote:
Do you add any sealant into your latex tubes? I'm installing some for the first time this weekend and bought a bottle of Orange Seal. I've heard that it'll gum up your valve over time, though, so not sure if people add them for everyday riding or just before races.

I add orange seal to mine. Sometimes, a bit squirts out when I pump up, but it hasn't yet gummed up the valve. After about a year, the sealant has coagulated into a snotty clot in the tube so you'll need to change the tube then. If you really want to be anal, just park your bike with the valve stems at 5 or 7 o'clock. Any sealant will drain down and out.
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Re: First Time Latex Review [dfroelich] [ In reply to ]
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dfroelich wrote:
JonathanNYC wrote:
Do you add any sealant into your latex tubes? I'm installing some for the first time this weekend and bought a bottle of Orange Seal. I've heard that it'll gum up your valve over time, though, so not sure if people add them for everyday riding or just before races.


I add orange seal to mine. Sometimes, a bit squirts out when I pump up, but it hasn't yet gummed up the valve. After about a year, the sealant has coagulated into a snotty clot in the tube so you'll need to change the tube then. If you really want to be anal, just park your bike with the valve stems at 5 or 7 o'clock. Any sealant will drain down and out.
Thanks. I think I'll add sealant to mine. Only takes a few minutes when you install the tubes for the first time, right?

Out of curiosity, any particular reason why 5/7 o'clock and not 6?
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Re: First Time Latex Review [JonathanNYC] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, it is really quick. Orange sealant comes with a tub nozzle, so you just remove the valve core and squirt it in. Unfortunately, the bottle does not have any graduated lines, letting you know how much you add, so either draw the lines yourself, or use a syringe type injector (Stans, or similar).

6 o'clock should work, however, since latex loses pressure quicker than butyl, at that position, the valve stem will droop straight down into the rim. It may then pinch the tube shut, right in a pool of sealant. That is max clog potential. Of course, if you use the stem nut, than this won't happen. There should not be enough sealant that it would pool up the entire 6 o'clock to get in the valve, but maybe?
tl;dr - 5 or 7 o'clock for me, maybe it makes no difference.
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Re: First Time Latex Review [dfroelich] [ In reply to ]
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Got it. You've really thought this out! 5/7 o'clock it is! Thanks for the tip here.
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Re: First Time Latex Review [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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I've never had a butyl tube last anywhere near as long as a latex tube. And just because you didn't "feel" the benefit doesn't mean it wasn't there. Yep, latex tubes are more expensive. From my experience, the performance benefit combined with the longevity is well worth the premium price and the minor hassle of having to top them off before each ride.

Stay aero my friends.
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Re: First Time Latex Review [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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rubik wrote:
C2B wrote:
I read a bunch of threads here and even with my size factored in everything seemed to indicate I should be running pressure in the 90's. I started out around 90psi, then 95psi, then 100psi and then said f' it and jumped to 110psi. The problem was that I kept pinch flatting at the lower pressures. From the 90 to 100psi experiments over 6 months I probably pinch flatted at least 6 times, always with the tell tale snake bite holes. Once I jumped to 110psi I never pinch flatted again


I've never flatted in a race, but it is the commuting experience that has me pumping the race setup to the same pressure.


Same experience. At 163 lbs, 90 psi (on a 17mm inner width rim and 23mm GP4000s) netted me 5 pinch flats in 5 different races. Now I never run below 95, and generally go 98/100 front/rear and haven't had a flat in two seasons of racing.

I also can't stand the squishy feeling of 90 psi or below in the front when standing up.

Yup. We’re about the same weight and I don’t like going below 95 front and 100 rear. I don’t feel as confident in corners. (Same goes with trying stupid low pressures on my mtb). And the roads are rough here, plus I like to ride dirt/gravel stuff.
However, I do notice a difference in “smoothness” between butyl and latex. And I’m not a slow rider :)
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Re: First Time Latex Review [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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[quote teddygram I heard one of my tires explode.........

........I just wanted to say I am impressed and do recommend these bad mama jamma's to anyone on the fence.[/quote]
Not a great marketing campaign (followed by the scratching my head emoji).
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Re: First Time Latex Review [MKirk] [ In reply to ]
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MKirk wrote:
[quote teddygram I heard one of my tires explode.........

........I just wanted to say I am impressed and do recommend these bad mama jamma's to anyone on the fence.


Quote:
Not a great marketing campaign (followed by the scratching my head emoji).


MKirk,

I stated that there was a installation error that caused it
Last edited by: teddygram: Jun 8, 18 13:16
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Re: First Time Latex Review [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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I was servicing my rear wheel (cleaning and inspecting, this is the wheel that did not pop) and I found this bad boy in it!

I cannot verify that it went all the way through but I had to pull it out with needle-nose pliers - It was in fairly deep and no tube leaking!

FWIW this rear tire had stans in it




Last edited by: teddygram: Jun 11, 18 11:25
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Re: First Time Latex Review [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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Those are usually little pieces of steel belt from worn truck tires. I've pulled several out of my latex-tubed tires without sealant, and no puncture.
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