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Re: June Fish thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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"Strokes" are beyond me, at this point. But, as promised I did work on my flip turns, comical though I'm sure it was. I did them in my first 100 free warmup. Those were such a disaster, I had no idea how to time or coordinate them for my single-arm drill sets, so I did those with open turns as per normal. I tried flip-turns again in the first 3 50s of my main-set. Oh god! Besides the random directions off the wall while swimming at pace...the hypoxia (especially when the random direction was DOWN)!!!! Ok, ok...I bailed on the flips after 3, and vowed to practice in the warm-down pool after.

WU: 3x100 drills

MS: 26x50 @47s (20s) failed at #13, #21, #26

CD: 100ez

Everything was slow today. I felt like it was a little bit of everything: hips low, slipping a little on the pull, and maybe fishtailing a bit. Looking at the data from Garmin:
  1. stroke rate was up to 56 spm (vs 54 spm on Saturday)
  2. Strokes was up to 23 spl (vs 21 spl on Saturday)
  3. Pace was slower 47/48 per 50y (vs 45/46 on Saturday)

I tried to "fix" the things I was noticing this morning, with "some" success: my pace picked up y about 1.5s in the latter half of the set, and the spl dropped by a stroke. But, things just weren't "right" today.

I kinda screwed the pooch on Saturday, it was the first time this year that I swam AND did my long bike on the same day. For various reasons, I haven't been able to swim much on Saturday's this year. Anyway, I clearly didn't eat enough before swimming AND biking. I should have had a second breakfast or something before going out to bike. I hit the wall on the bike with an hour to go, and have been in recovery mode since. Legs still feel like crap. So, I'm clearly still carrying a lot of fatigue from my fuck-up. I suppose that played into how I swam this morning.

Oh well. First backslide this year.

Oh yeah...almost forgot. I spent 15 minutes in the warm-down pool practicing flip turns. Felt significantly better by the end. Flipping onto my back and rotating post push-off seemed to work better than flipping and rotating at once.
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Re: June Fish thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Hey I was like you 1.5 years ago...I am just learning all strokes! Keep up the flip turn work!
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Re: June Fish thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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7.4 mi run w/ 4.25 mi @ 8:20 pace
1375 yd swim

500 w/u
50 kick
4 x [100 fast + 50 kick] 1:14, 1:13, 1:12, 1:12
225 c/d

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: June Fish thread [NUFCrichard] [ In reply to ]
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NUFCrichard wrote:
...I'm finding this whole trying to be a fish thing a bit depressing!

I feel for ya! Although it's kinda hard for us lifelong swimmers to fully relate. Just keep plugging away, get some technique coaching and you'll eventually get an epiphany moment, something will click and you'll be faster. This will happen again and again.

I'm finally going to get some relief from by sciatica pain. My Pain Management Doc called me after receiving my MRI. He felt a cortisone epidural could help. He said I don't have so much a disc bulge, but a narrowing of the nerve conduit at L4-L5 and it's pinching my nerve. So getting that scheduled.

I can still swim, though, and hit the pool yesterday, which with my ocean acclimation now, feels way too warm at 80 or so. Back in the wonderful 67 deg ocean this AM for some 2500 yards. That water temp, and redirecting gravity (being horizontal) helps, not to mention the twisting motion of swimming itself, suck a lot of pain out of me. I wish I could stay in there forever.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: June Fish thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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7 mi run, first four progressive, 62 min
1475 yd swim

500 swim
50 kick
50 swim
500 swim
50 kick
100 fast 1:11
50 kick
100 fast 1:11
25 kick, 25 swim, 25 kick

really pleased with those 100 times.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: June Fish thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Well....I don't want to end up under a bus 18 months from now. So, Imma stop the mimicry at flip-turns. I did another 15 minutes of flips following todays set. Its getting a little more comfortable. I was a little more predictable in choosing where/when to initiate the turn, and what direction I came off the wall. I think I'm still kinda flailing with my right arm a bit.

As far as the set goes....Harumph....slightly better than yesterday, but still 46s/47s...mostly 47s.

WU: 3x100 drills

MS: 24x50 @47s (20s) failed at 13, 19, 24

CD: 100ez + 15 minutes of flip-turn practice

A bit frustrated. Slow-ish, and failed early. I did notice that I was dropping my left elbow a bit (I was a little more canoe-paddle instead of surf-board). I corrected that towards the end of the set and managed a couple 45s, but by then I'd already failed twice and was already pretty fatigued.

Tomorrow is a planned off-day (for swim). I'm trying to decide if I should stick with that plan, or perhaps go do some drills and flip-turns...maybe keep it short and follow up with my planned short run. then again...maybe I should give the swim muscles a break and see how they feel on Friday.
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Re: June Fish thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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The last two days have been OWS at dawn. 2.3 miles yesterday, 2.1 today. That 65-67 degree water felt great without a wetsuit.

I dragged one of my old swimming buddies through it this morning. He's in town for a few days for work. I sorta forgot that he might not be used to the elevation here (5400 feet), so I started out relatively quick, chasing the group in front of us, who got a bit of a head start. Sorry, bud! I hope it wasn't too bad!

We both made the comment that the water was perfect for no wetsuit. It's almost getting to it being too warm. A few 100 degree days this week might get that temp up, but, we still have those 53 degree nights.
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Re: June Fish thread [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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2.5 mi walk
2000 yd swim

5 x 100 on 1:30 w/u
4 x [200 fast + 50 kick + 50 easy] 2:31, 2:28, 2:27, 2:27
300 c/d

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: June Fish thread [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
The last two days have been OWS at dawn. 2.3 miles yesterday, 2.1 today. That 65-67 degree water felt great without a wetsuit.

That's what I did this morning - around 2 miles in 67 degree water & no wetsuit. I had been acclimating myself for a few weeks so that I'd be tolerant during my 3 mile race last weekend. Barely had the shivers afterwards. In fact, during the race, there was a huge spot of 70+ water heading toward the outer leg of the race (furthest from shore and paralleling it). I thought the majority of the race would be in that and I was going to overheat and fade. Luckily, it only lasted a few minutes and the temp was back down around 64, which was a great racing temp.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: June Fish thread [HalfSpeed] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Steve, I checked out that swim/run series you are doing, and how did I miss that? Right down the road from me and it looks like a really fun series. Unfortunately I'm out of town for tonights race, and probably be on vacation for the next couple, but maybe I can make the final one in Aug. You gonna be able to run a 5k by then??

Did some 500's today, best set of those in awhile;

4x(500/100IM kick@2;30) swim@7;30(7;09)buoy@7;30(6;54)paddles only@7;00(6;30)buoy and paddles@7;00(6;11) kicks( 1;51/1;49/1;49/1;45)
5x50buoy@1;00(39's)
100 dolphin(1;55)
2750SCY
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Re: June Fish thread [HalfSpeed] [ In reply to ]
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I wanted to do a 2.4 mile swim in Longmont, CO, last weekend, but I ended up being super busy and didn't make it.

Without trying to come off as dick, I want to point out to anyone reading that a wetsuit is NOT needed in temps above 63 or so. I found that out the last several swims, especially the first one, two weeks ago. The water temp was 62: I had to remind myself to breathe during the first minute or so, but even after that, I was okay. I had the "cold-water claw" for my left hand, but a wetsuit couldn't have prevented that anyway. Just give it a shot, people! It's thrilling, it'll wake you up! I'll say I had my doubts and worries, but I made it, and it's NBD anymore.

A friend did IM Boulder 140 a few weeks ago. She swam in a full arms-legs wetsuit. She didn't need it for buoyancy, she was a college swimmer. On a hot day such as that, would she have benefitted by just going in her tri kit or swim suit? I mean, consider the cost/benefit analysis:

full wetsuit makes a swimmer X minutes faster - (minus) stop for :30-:60 to get the wetsuit stripped by volunteers - loss of sodium on perspiration - raised core temp because of full wetsuit experienced the rest of the day - loss of aero advantage/watts bc of extra bottles/sodium on the bike + body isn't shivering and there's better coordination....?
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Re: June Fish thread [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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Going in for my 7 day check with the docs tomorrow at the hospital. I will find out when they will let me back in the water for "legs only". I can do all 4 stroke motions in the air with some discomfort. Let's see, but minimally now that i am kind of a "real swimmer" I can easily kill an hour in the pool doing all 4 strokes legs only, with and without flutter board and back/free/fly legs only with fins....so I should be pretty well conditioned by the time I can add upper body.
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Re: June Fish thread [HalfSpeed] [ In reply to ]
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HalfSpeed wrote:
NUFCrichard wrote:
...I'm finding this whole trying to be a fish thing a bit depressing!


I feel for ya! Although it's kinda hard for us lifelong swimmers to fully relate. Just keep plugging away, get some technique coaching and you'll eventually get an epiphany moment, something will click and you'll be faster. This will happen again and again.

I'm finally going to get some relief from by sciatica pain.
I had piriformis/sciatica in spring whilst training for a marathon. I found that a balance cushion for my work chair really helped. Obviously YMMV.

It was 31°C yesterday and 6 of the 8 indoor lanes were booked by clubs, so I went to the outdoor pool fully expecting it to be a nightmare.
Weirdly it was pretty empty! 24°C water temp was nice too. I shared the lane with a fish, he swam faster than I can with fins.

Anyway: 400m in
3x300m fins 25 kick/25 swim
10x100m pull and paddles arriving on 1:38ish, 15 seconds rest
10x100m pull arriving on 1:39ist, 15 seconds rest
6x100m drills, 25 drill/25swim
100m out
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Re: June Fish thread [NUFCrichard] [ In reply to ]
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I will have an entry later today on the June fish thread. I got clearance to get back in the water from the ortho clinic
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Re: June Fish thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I will have an entry later today on the June fish thread. I got clearance to get back in the water from the ortho clinic

happy for you!

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: June Fish thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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4.8 mi easy run
1075 yd swim

500 swim
50 kick
5 x 100 on 1:30
25 kick

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: June Fish thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Hey Steve, I checked out that swim/run series you are doing, and how did I miss that? Right down the road from me and it looks like a really fun series. Unfortunately I'm out of town for tonights race, and probably be on vacation for the next couple, but maybe I can make the final one in Aug. You gonna be able to run a 5k by then??
I should have mentioned Coveathlon. Yeah, a 1k flatwater Swim and a 5k mostly flat run. I took pictures at the first one. I did just the swim last night. It wasn’t impressive, though because I swam 4000 in the ocean that morning then 2000 more before the race. The water is pretty warm but most wear wetsuits, for the speed, of course. Mike Collins was there and I think 3rd or 4th OA. My gf, Heidi won the women’s OA. She kicked my butt (and most of the guys) in the swim and proceeded to pass most of the guys on the run despite women starting 5 minutes later.
It’s low key and a lot of fun! We’ll miss the final race (&BBQ) due to another race commitment – Waikiki Roughwater and Maui Channel Swim.
I hope to be running long before that as we’re also racing at Casco Bay SwimRun.
Oh, and 3800 in the quite rough ocean this morning.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: June Fish thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
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OK, I can report back.....2300m of kick today after I got doc clearance.

main set all without board hands in overhead streamline position.

4x100IM kick
3x200IM kick
1x400 IM kick
3x200 IM kick
4x100 IM kick

2x100IM....start with 25m underwater dolphin hard....rest of it easy

Half of the 200's were with fins....the rest no fins. On the breast kick I am able to do a short skull with minimal injury/arm/elbow shooting pain. I can soft stroke freestyle, but its so bad and floppy and a bit painful that it is pointless. I suspect that i can swim free in 10 days, breast in 5 day...back and butterfly maybe in a month but who knows.

The workout went pretty fast. It was great to be back in the pool. I think spending the next month doing IM kick will help my 200IM and 400IM and 200 fly when I can swim wiith upper body again.
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Re: June Fish thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Today's session started wit me watching the end of a workout done by an Olympic gold medalist in swimming from 2016. Really cool.

My workout:
1000 swim
3 x 500 @ :10 rest, snorkel, with pull buoy on the first.
2 x 500@ 8:00 (7:33, 7:33)
9 x 500 @ 8:00, 2 with paddles, 7 swim (7:24, 7:24, 7:29, 7:29, 7:30, :30, :31, :30, :28)
300 as 50 kick, 100 swim with snorkel
200 as 50 breaststroke, 50 free

8500m long course

I had a few water breaks in there, plus once to get out and refill by bottle.
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Re: June Fish thread [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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Been a couple days since I posted. I took Thursday completely off, seems like fatigue was still catching up with me, everything was off swim, run, and bike.

Friday went to the pool after work, did my usual usrpt set of 50s: Did them on 46s, failed at 11, 17, #24.

Since I swam `14 hours previous, I didn't want to do the same 50s workout back to back. So, I decided to try the CSS test.

WU: 4x100 as (swim, 2x(LA/RA/swim/swim), swim)

MS:
400TT (7:00 flat)
5x50ez @50 (30s)
200TT (3:13)

9x50 @47 (30s)

1700scy

So, that says my CSS pace is 1:53/100y. I did note that I had two lengths in the second half of the 400 that were well off of the laps surrounding them. My splits were:

23.3/24.3/24.5/25.6/26.6/26.4/26.3/26.6/26.9/26.4/26.6/26.4/28.2/25.9/32.2/25.9/24.7

I was sharing the lane with a kid who was trying to underwater dolphin the full 25y. Sometimes he would pop up in front of me. I'm guessing that's what happened for the 28.2/32.2 lengths. I don't recall specifically.

Also, I haven't swum 400 straight since last year. So, I don't feel like I paced the 400 very well, and I was pretty conservative. Ah well....its a start.

I'm wondering if the disparity between my 200 (1:37 pace) and 400 (1:45 pace) times indicates that I should begin focusing on longer usrpt lengths. I may see what happens with the 50s this coming week...and increase to 75s the following week.

PS: For dev...I transitioned to doing flip-turns in the main pool in warmup. I even managed to do a bunch in the middle of some moderate 50s (in the 9x50 above). They are still a bit of a mess, but I didn't bounce off the bottom of the pool! I also felt like they were no longer SLOWER than my open turns.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Jun 30, 18 13:44
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