You should be able to improve your overall fitness with indoor training. In theory, you should be able to control intervals and loads more effectively indoor and reduce the overall amount of free wheeling and quick power drops that you see outdoors.

Oddly, I had the same experience with power meter/dumb trainer and my indoor FTP being substantially lower. I switched to a smart trainer and the numbers are much closer though I can still do more power for longer intervals outdoors. Partly due to “micro resting”, psychology, etc. It can be annoying though to see that an hour ride indoors comes out to less TSS than a similar feeling outdoor ride. But then I have the same issue with outdoor vs. treadmill running... Either way, the actual real-life effect of the training is there.

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Blog | Strava

I've observed the same with myself fam.

Like trihawg mentions above, I think riding outdoors gives you those micro rests, whether it be roll, coasting, wind, terrain etc. which let me hold a few more watts than indoors. I see indoor rides as higher quality as there is little/no variability that can effect my power besides the temperature of my apartment, no micro rests and the training stress sets on quicker.

However, for pacing, I do my long rides outdoors and see what power is best for me because I can't hold the watts indoors as what I can outdoors.

It also depends on your training load. There's a tipping point in doing enough volume/intensity/variation to stimulate adaptation vs maintaining.

You don't necessarily need to do more to gain fitness, but if you do the same volume and same work each week and don't change it up... you'll not see much in the way of gains.

I watched my metrics and focused on my smart trainer + zwift + Edge 520 workouts over the winter and baseline speed I gained 1.5 mph in speed with increased FTP. More speed with not that much more work now. After 1 Oly and 1 half, I was able to hold the speed gains with sacrificing my run.

It can be done with indoor training. Just takes a solid plan despite the variations in power readings from indoor to outdoor.

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Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
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I seem to get more out of training indoors (doing intervals) with Zwift than I get outdoors on TP's performance manager and to my perception of performance on the road.

I can hit intervals much easier on the trainer than on the road.

There is a limit to my tolerance of indoor training though.

Perhaps I framed the question wrongly. I understand the differences from indoor vs outdoor FTP, micro-rests, sucky trainier w/o so called road feel etc.
My query was more towards that it seems my fitness adaptations only comes from outdoors cycling.

All the work I've done indoors using workouts from (mixture of) Zwift / Trainerroad indoors only seems to be maintaining the fitness I gained from over the weekend outdoor rides.
For those of you that do exclusively indoor workouts (like in winter, how does the graph look? Does it show a fitness gain or is that something not to be expected w/ these 1hr indoor rides (quality rides even)

Oh and btw, indoor really is punishing.. Even w/ the lower power of 10-20w I can still barely make it to block 5. I just dis-integrate after the 3rd interval block.

thamnks

Right. So if you’re actual FTP is possibly lower indoors than out but your TSS calc is based off an established FTP that matches what you can do outside, your fitness gains will show up on outdoor rides and basically maintain on indoor ones. In reality, if you have an actual lower FTP indoors then what may show up as a 60 TSS one hour ride may be a 72 TSS for example. If, on the other hand, your FTP is accurate to your indoor condition, your outdoor ride TSS will over estimate your gains outside. Since a higher IF has a parabolic increase in TSS, the gain will show up even higher than what you’re actually putting in.

I have a similar effect that shows up since I’m currently doing 3-4 indoor rides and 1-2 outdoor per week. I like to do a one hour ride, one that’s 1:30-2:00, and one that’s a “free ride” typically on “hilly routes”. I find the free ride to be one where I tend to actually end up workin harder and tolerating it longer because I can mix in out of saddle climbs. I see more gains from that end but they don’t show up as drastically as outdoor sessions.

At the end of the day, if your RPE is about on target, you have enough endurance to hit your race distance, and your doing the work, it will show up on race day. The graphs are just an estimate anyway :-)

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Blog | Strava

Can I suggest getting a cheap set of rollers for your easy/recovery rides so you get to use all those accessory muscles that can get neglected when locked in upright on a wind trainer.

That makes sense, hence my question as to how ppl who does 100% indoor (graph) looks like.


last year I did mainly indoor rides for a race but didn't manage to get a good enough performance and I suspect it was largely due to a lack of "hours" on the saddle. 1hr sessions 3-4x per week (indoors) can't really translate to a 3hr outdoor performance ride. After the 2nd hour, I was hopeless.

That's y this year, indoor is being mixed w/ outdoors and then i see such a graph. Tho I also learn that I can only take ~5 weeks of 400+ TSS per week before I fall sick.

err... my dumb trainer is USD100 :-p

Think his point is that if you're riding exclusively indoors then on a trainer you're not having to balance the bike so you're not using all the muscles you need to ride outdoors. Some roller riding can address that, plus I have to say roller training is great for smoothing out your pedalling. If you're mixing up riding outdoors then not an issue.

To your original question, personally I have no problem improving my fitness from riding exclusively indoors, though I prefer to do a mix of indoor and outdoor riding whenever possible. If anything, I find that indoor riding tends to boost my fitness more as if you follow a program like Trainerroad and are testing regularly then you're always progressing. Whereas with outdoor rides it's easier to hit a bit of a rut.

Exactly.
PS Checkout GoldenCheetah.
PPS I wish Mark and Andrew can see that they both are very valued contributors

I understood your question, I use the same FTP indoors as I do outdoors.

I feel my indoor training is very effective on my fitness level outdoors. I rode December through the end of March to be ready for a week long training camp in Georgia in the beginning of April. Training indoors effectively prepared me for that camp as well as any riding I could have done outdoors.

You seem to be reading too much into that graph. Despite how it is labeled, CTL does not directly equate to fitness, ATL does not directly equate to fatigue, and TSB does not directly equate to "form".

The question you should be asking is whether your power over durations relavent to your event is increasing/decreasing/staying the same. From what you have written, it seems as if the latter is the case. If so, you might conclude that your indoor training is at least more time-efficient in helping you achieve your goals (I am assuming that you are not spending as much time training indoors as you used to do outdoors).

You are _most_ definitely right that I am using that graph _a_lot_ to base on where I should be and where I should be going. (that is after all, what the articles from Friel etc are saying) . But of course, you are right, it should be used as a guide as well.

Indoors is limited to mornings 1hr or so 3x per week. So 3hrs Weekdays and ~3-5hrs Weekends. Like everyone, I want to be a time-efficient and indoors is where it is time-efficient. If I can get everything done indoors and only do some 3hrs sessions outdoors 1x-2x per month that would be great. I don't really want to drive an hour outdoors to ride for an hour.

Gist of it is, seeing the graph and the indoor workouts seems like they're not contributing to my fitness seems a tad depressive. (of course, there's the indoor vs outdoor FTP differences which could be the cause, then there's also the - reading too much into the graph etc)

I guess I'm confused now. :-(

I've only been cycling for a year. But I spent the past 6-8 weeks training almost exclusively indoors with a dumb trainer and Zwift workouts.

I did this training for my 1st HIM. I did the HIM two weeks back and killed it! I have never rode a bike that fast for that long, and felt great. Had no issues on the run, either

Then last weekend did an 82 Mike ride which was my longest to date. I maintained a great pace with ease.

Before, training outdoors, I was a good 3-4mph slower than after the indoor training.

I'm now training for an IM using TR structured workouts.

Back to your original question, I've attached a quick snapshot of my cycling indoor workout ramp between December and March. This was >90% indoor done on a smart trainer. For context, I finished my last 2017 at the end of October and basically did little to no real cycling until the end of December so I had a bit of a hole to work out. My typical training was geared towards HIM distance for races in April and May and basically followed this general outline:

-FTP test to set a training baseline at end of Dec.
-Weekly sessions of:
>1:00-1:30 Intervals above FTP typically as 5-7x5's with warmup
>1:30-2:00 Steady state endurance focused session with an IF typically around 0.7-0.75
>1:00 Sweet Spot session
>1:00-1:30 Either recovery session or "free ride" depending on how legs were feeling
-Retest FTP in March for race targets
-1-2 outdoor group rides a week beginning in late Feb, early March which replaced an indoor session.

My goal was to improve as a cyclist this season and it seemed to work out. I'm not a great cyclist but I was able to get my HIM bike split under 2:30 which was the goal this year. I felt it was a big key to hit sessions where you're having to do the actual time you anticipate for race day. I considered the 2:00 indoor sessions to be absolutely awful to sit through, but they were a crucial part of feeling comfortable for the entire bike leg on race day. The graph shows an increase in fitness with indoor workouts since I was working off an indoor FTP.

Consider doing an indoor FTP test to set a baseline for your indoor sessions and see if you can work in a longer indoor ride every so often. If you're able to afford a smart trainer, I've considered it well worth the investment :-)

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Blog | Strava

I posted this on another thread but this might be a better place to ask this since it falls somewhat similar;

I am new to TrainerRoad and training with Power, I absolutely love TR and think it is fantastic!

My question is this;

I did a FTP test on Wednesday (5/23/18) and this was my 3rd time ever doing a FTP test (20min test). I did it on a dumb trainer (my wahoo was unavailable to be used this time) with my Garmin V3 power pedals (calibrated on TR before usage). I had a result that I was floored with as I just started my training and have been working really hard.

But my graph looked like this;



This is a indication that I really don't know how to FTP test right or I just suck at being inside haha! With 5min to go I had plenty of steam left - however at the end of that 5 min I was cooked.

That netted me a 266 watt avg during the 20 min effort (not corrected by .95).

I then on 5/24/18 go and do a local group ride - I use the same bike and the same pedals and use my Garmin head unit this time (calibrated before ride) instead of my iPhone with TR - I sit on the front for 90% of the ride and at the end of the ride it notified me that I had a 20min AVG power of 275watt!!!!!!

Looked like this;




I am now lost as what to do - do I set my FTP higher as real world data shows it to be higher (this is right at 4% difference) or do I leave my TR alone. I will say I am not a great indoor trainer guy and try to ride 2/3 rides on the trainer as I find it controls my training better.

FWIW I just finished the Base Phase and Literally just started the Build phase!

Do I chalk it up to environment that gave me the results or maybe the calibration from the TR app to the Garmin unit could be 4% - just looking for some help and feed back!

I'm 100% in favor of indoor riding. Trainer Road is my go to program. I would be surprised if you were not seeing benefits from your indoor riding workouts. I would guess that your perceived lack of increase in your fitness from your indoor workouts is based somehow on how you are measuring it.

I want to get power pedals in a bad way. This seems to be the best way to measure power both indoor and outdoor. I also like racing based on power rather than heart rate. Problem is, they are so expensive! I bet power pedals would show you a more accurace depiction of the increase in your bike fitness.

That 20 minute test didn't give you a good read on your FTP (as it wasn't properly paced)

Given you've got TrainerRoad already just do their new ramp test, no need to pace it, you just go till failure & it spits out a number.

That is interesting - I dont know anything about this. I will have to look at my TR some and see if I can find this workout.


*EDIT* I found this test and am looking at it - maybe next week after I have rested some I will give it a try!

Doing the FTP back to the Hard ride has worn my legs already!

Thanks!

I have a crank arm based left side only power meter. That's how the Graphs from the chrome extension Stravistix is getting the numbers to plot the graph.

My "perceived" lack of fitness is basically when I look at the graph (as AndrewCoogan mentioned above) is that I am possibly reading too much into the graph.