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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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RangerGress wrote:
https://tribunist.com/...s-in-the-boy-scouts/

Mike nails it.

My two takeaways:

1) Mike Rowe likes to pose for pictures of Mike Rowe.

2) Mike Rowe doesn't know what a "safe space" is.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [ECE] [ In reply to ]
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ECE wrote:
The popcorn sales it's required that all the kids in the pack sell $350 worth to meet the minimum quota. Another "bigger" pack that we looked at had a $250 quota so I'm assuming that BSA has a "per pack" number that has to be met. The other bigger fundraiser for our pack during the year is a silent auction that happens during the pinewood derby. All the families are "encouraged" to contribute something to the auction.

A few things I found interesting about the popcorn sales. 50% of in person sales goes directly to BSA the rest goes to the pack. 66% goes to the pack if the sale is made via their "online" store. The popcorn isn't really all that good but it costs A LOT, so if you can sell like 6 orders you'll make your $350. If while in the midst of selling popcorn someone gives a cash donation 100% of that goes to the pack. It was my take away, don't buy the popcorn just give the kid a check to the pack it's better for all involved.

The popcorn nonsense is terrible. The first meeting I took my son to he went and got his kerchief and I went to a meeting for the new parents. I was a little excited since I had grown up with scouting. The entire meeting was about popcorn and the first month was a barrage of emails. We apparently had it easy with only $50 min sales. Which really pissed me off. $350 I would have walked away.

The popcorn sales and I told this to our popcorn "colonel" was a bad amway rip off.

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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On this topic.........

I taught myself how to do most everything handy I know how to do. I never did scouts. I had a few encouraging people around me growing up, and I knew for damn sure I didn't want to live in my hometown forever working at my dad's insurance agency.

I'm appalled these days at the percentage of grown men who can't do shit for their family outside of bring in a paycheck. I see these people in Lowes or Home Depot, frequently, paying for extra services to hang a ceiling fan or replace a dish washer. Let's take a moment to applaud the ladies, because, IMHO they've picked up a lot more traditionally male homemaking skills about as fast as the men are losing those skills.

Guys who can't change oil. Can't change a flat. Can't hang a ceiling fan.

We've been conditioned that we just go to work and do the singular thing we're capable of and then use that money for all that homemaking stuff we used to do ourselves.

When I was growing up, there was no such thing as your average middle class man hiring a damn lawn service.

At least when you did those chores yourself at home, you were home, with your spouse and kids. And you were showing your kids useful skills and spending time with them.

Now we have a bunch of douche dads in this generation who think working 80 hours a week and "playing hard" is the American way. Basically an absentee parent tossing cash at handling his household.

Now we're starting to see the first generations of youth who've grown up with this kind of mentality.

And it's pretty crappy. It's not all people from that time period, I work with some awesome folks. But it's getting more and more rare.

To me, the explosion of average income folks paying for lawn services is probably most telling. You've got a damn 11 year old, make him push it for you! Or push it yourself!

Sorry, I'll get off the front porch now and go put my PBR in the recycling bin. Just remember to get off my lawn.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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I had the same meeting with the new prospects at one of the two packs we visited. The pack that was associated with my son's school shut down the year before for lack of participation, that put my son at another disadvantage with the group but it's a different story. I was able to make his quota pretty easily by sending out an email to a list of folks a la the same people I get the cookie & other fundraiser emails from. Took about a week and we were set. Later I found out that a growing list of parents are refusing to have their kids sell the stuff and either just write the check or totally ignore it.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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Lot's of good points and I agree with much of what he said. Decline in the BSA membership is the same with many fraternal organizations like the Elks, it's not only youth organizations. I think it's a reflection of society when someone can have more Instagram followers than members in the BSA. Life was just simpler 40 years ago but don't ask me to define simpler - just different.

Today it's the parents job more than ever to teach their kids skills to be successful in now and in the future. Independence, values, work ethic, what it's like to fail and how you respond to failure, goal setting, etc. I could go on and on but parents are failing their kids in record numbers and I don't see the trend improving.

My 15 year old son got a trophy last week for coming in 10th place out of 35. WTF? However, he knows 10th place is not where he wants to be and hopefully we have instilled on him the value of hard work to achieve his goals. However, we are always battling the phone, computer games, getting him to do homework, mowing the neighbor's yard, and the concept of a dollar. Lot's of distraction versus when I was a kid.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [ECE] [ In reply to ]
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Later I found out that a growing list of parents are refusing to have their kids sell the stuff and either just write the check or totally ignore it.

Since our minimum was only $50 I just paid it. I had no real desire for my son to go out and sell it because I had thought for years it was a total rip off.

The local municipalities took away the fund raiser we used to do with collecting newspapers. Riding around in pick ups collecting and filling up an 18 wheeler. That was a lot of fun, actual work and a good way to feel part of the community.

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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Leddy wrote:
The local municipalities took away the fund raiser we used to do with collecting newspapers. Riding around in pick ups collecting and filling up an 18 wheeler. That was a lot of fun, actual work and a good way to feel part of the community.
I was in the Boy Scouts back in the late '60's/early '70's. I don't remember popcorn. Our big fundraiser was selling Christmas trees. Lots of physical labor involved, everything from pruning the trees to cutting them down to dragging them to and from the trucks. All sort of fun.

My biggest reason for joining was that I'd read the USAF Academy catalog when I was in high school and in there they had statistics about the sort of things cadets had been involved in. A certain percentage had been president of their high school class, captain of the football team, or had earned a pilot's license. When I saw that 85% had been in the Boy Scouts (this would have been in 1969), I joined up. I wonder how many of the cadets entering this year (they'll graduate as the class of 2022) were members of the Boy Scouts?

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Amen, brother.

When I was younger, Saturday and maybe Sunday mornings were filled with the sounds of lawn mowers. These days I mow my lawn and feel guilty for making noise while the neighbors are all enjoying a pool party. I think I'm the only one on my street that takes care of my own lawn...others have lawn service, maid service, pool service, dog washing service, car washing service, whatever. The day I can't take care of my own house is the day I downsize. I can't imagine what all that is costing....thank god for immigrants I guess.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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Mike nails it.

Concur.

Thanks for sharing this.

Suffer Well.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I wonder how many of the cadets entering this year (they'll graduate as the class of 2022) were members of the Boy Scouts?


We went to the naval academy last year with scouts for a football game. The midshipman giving us tour specifically mentioned there’s still a high percentage of Eagle Scouts at the naval academy at least.

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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Leddy wrote:
Quote:
I wonder how many of the cadets entering this year (they'll graduate as the class of 2022) were members of the Boy Scouts?



We went to the naval academy last year with scouts for a football game. The midshipman giving us tour specifically mentioned there’s still a high percentage of Eagle Scouts at the naval academy at least.

True of every civilian to Officer Commissioning program of which that I am aware for that last several decades. All of the Academies and ROTC scholarship programs for certain- Officer Selection Officers use it as an indicator of commitment, leadership, etc. To a lesser extent I would guess in the OCS/PLC programs.

It might be a bit of a self fulfilling thing too, as there is some similar personality traits, interests and desires that are shared by those who make it to Eagle Scout and those that wish to serve as an officer in the armed forces.

Suffer Well.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [swimwithstones] [ In reply to ]
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swimwithstones wrote:
2) Mike Rowe doesn't know what a "safe space" is.


It is sort of ironic that one reading of that essay is that the Scouts were Rowe's safe space, "It was often humbling, but never humiliating. Failure was simply viewed as the most common symptom of trying."

So the Scouts being somewhere were he no longer had to be afraid of being humiliated....e.g. "safe."
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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I disagree about the time thing. I played football in the mid '80s. We started weight training after school in January. That meant we had December off.
I stayed active in Scouts through the summer after my senior year (was on staff at the national Jamboree that summer).

I think parents put less importance on Scouting. Scouting won't get my kid a scholarship, why waste the time?

Getting an ROTC scholarship involved numerous interviews. My first interview involved driving 45 minutes to Cincy. I expected a long interview.
It went like this:"I see your an Eagle Scout. I don't have any more questions for you." That rank opens many doors.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [trail] [ In reply to ]
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To be fair, I think Mike's safe space is a little different than what the most liberal version of a safe space is.

There's places like the scouts and most sports teams where its okay to fail, and everyone will support you, but there's still a "you've got to man up, support your teammates, pull your weight, don't let people down, etc." attitude behind it. Its okay to fail, but its not okay to be a pussy.

The other extreme of that is this idea that all feelings are valid and everyone has to bend over backwards for the wuss who just doesn't have their shit together and brings the whole group down.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [Bumble Bee] [ In reply to ]
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Where I grew up, the general reputation that BSA had with those outside of it, was that Boy Scouts was for nerds and geeks. Not cool at all. The outdated horrid dorky uniforms I'm sure play a large part in this.

Look, kids that age are very aware of appearance and looking cool. At a minimum, they don't want to be perceived geek or nerd by association and dress.

BSA needs to completely revamp their image in the eyes of the youth. Low hanging fruit to do this is their uniforms and other standard wear. Then work on the hard stuff, like actual image of the participants and what "they" do and are like. This is long term pretty long term though.

I accept that my perception on this may be out of kilter with the rest of the areas. Just my 2 cents from 30 years ago in Alabama where i grew up.

.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [Endo] [ In reply to ]
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Endo wrote:
Where I grew up, the general reputation that BSA had with those outside of it, was that Boy Scouts was for nerds and geeks. Not cool at all. The outdated horrid dorky uniforms I'm sure play a large part in this.

Look, kids that age are very aware of appearance and looking cool. At a minimum, they don't want to be perceived geek or nerd by association and dress.

BSA needs to completely revamp their image in the eyes of the youth. Low hanging fruit to do this is their uniforms and other standard wear. Then work on the hard stuff, like actual image of the participants and what "they" do and are like. This is long term pretty long term though.

I accept that my perception on this may be out of kilter with the rest of the areas. Just my 2 cents from 30 years ago in Alabama where i grew up.

.

I would say that was my general perception of the scouts. I mean, it's not playing D&D geeky, but it's not something "cool" kids did. Actually, it was mostly just under the radar. Something you heard about every once in a while, usually when some kid you weren't really aware of was noted for some accomplishment with it.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [Endo] [ In reply to ]
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Endo wrote:
Where I grew up, the general reputation that BSA had with those outside of it, was that Boy Scouts was for nerds and geeks. Not cool at all. The outdated horrid dorky uniforms I'm sure play a large part in this.

Look, kids that age are very aware of appearance and looking cool. At a minimum, they don't want to be perceived geek or nerd by association and dress.

BSA needs to completely revamp their image in the eyes of the youth. Low hanging fruit to do this is their uniforms and other standard wear. Then work on the hard stuff, like actual image of the participants and what "they" do and are like. This is long term pretty long term though.

I accept that my perception on this may be out of kilter with the rest of the areas. Just my 2 cents from 30 years ago in Alabama where i grew up.

.

My son's troop probably is on the geekier side, when I compare them to the sports teams my kids are on. Many of the scouts are in band, they are school clubs like robotics and chess. In general they seem to make good grades, from what I can tell. They do things that aren't cool, like pick up trash in parks, and spend weekends doing service projects like rebuilding an old bridge on a trail. During free time when they are at Boy Scout camp, they play card games like Exploding Kittens and Munchkins.

And I think all of this is great! I hope that Boy Scouts doesn't change just so more cool kids will join, which may result in higher numbers. We were backpacking it on a camping trip a couple of months ago, and a couple miles into it one of the boys started singing repeat after me songs. Completely uncool. But the boys had a blast even when they were wearing 30 lb packs over a few mile hike. Instead of Boy Scouts changing to fit the current stereotype of what is popular, maybe parents should help their kids understand that being cool isn't the only path.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [jmcconne] [ In reply to ]
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I guess it depends on the age. I'm 49 and went through all of cub scouts up to eagle scout. When I was a cub it was fun just to get to wear the uniform (we wore them to school on "den" days, which were after school). The rest of it was kind of take it or leave it except maybe the pinewood derby...highlight of the year. As a younger boy scout there were plenty of "cool" kids, as well as nerds, dumb, poor, etc., and we just loved going to summer camp together and hanging out all day and night, pretending we were Indians quite a bit, and just having fun with everything. Selling junk door to door was an embarrassment and a pain but at least we learned what it was like. By the time I hit 8th grade and went to the National Jamboree I was one of the older kids in our local troop, but having made contacts with kids from around the district who were my age or older kept me interested enough to finish my Eagle...along with a guy who was one of my best friends. Neither of us participated much after Eagle...all the kids were much younger, the leaders were changing, and we had sports most of the time. And I will say that walking around in a scout uniform when you are a high school sophomore no longer seems cool.

My kids (6 and 8) have plenty of activities already with Taekwondo, swimming, piano, church, etc. And we are avid outdoors enthusiasts (both have done multi-day backpacking in the Grand Canyon, kayaking, hiking). But none of that gives them the experience of a warm summer night running around in the dark at scout camp with 20 other kids playing soldiers. There is an independence established that they need. My first nights camping without my family, my first trip without my family, my first experience selling scout show tickets by myself...all from scouting. I was lucky enough to receive a full academic scholarship for college and during the selection interview we discussed my scouting experience and leadership from that quite a bit.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [jmcconne] [ In reply to ]
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I kind of just assumed that what you described in your son's troupe was basically the Boy Scout's niche.

It was a place for kids that leaned more on the nerdy side of things, but who were also interested in outdoorsy stuff, to have the opportunity to explore it with like-minded kids.

Hey, i had a have a nerdy side also, I played D&D, very into sci-fi, did art, etc... But I was also pretty into sports and very into the outdoors. My two worlds should never collide with each other, so BSA was a no-go. lol.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [Dapper Dan] [ In reply to ]
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Dapper Dan wrote:
There is an independence established that they need. My first nights camping without my family, my first trip without my family, my first experience selling scout show tickets by myself...all from scouting. I was lucky enough to receive a full academic scholarship for college and during the selection interview we discussed my scouting experience and leadership from that quite a bit. .

This is a big reason I love my kids are in Scouts. My 11 year old now goes camping, and I don't even help him pack. Him and his friends put up the tents, plan the activities, and cook all of the food. A few adults are around, but most of the time they are just there for an emergency. He now started making french toast for the family, because he learned how to do it on a camping trip. He said it was kinda soggy the first time, but all of the boys ate it.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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My son quit Scouts in 8th grade because all the badge stuff just seemed like drudgery to him. He would have been happy if it was all camping, hiking, outdoorsy stuff. Having to write up a report for a badge wasn't his idea of fun.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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So I asked my brother the long time Scoutmaster what he thought of admitting girls to the Boy Scouts.

"Best thing they could have done."

Then he pointed out that worldwide the vast majority of countries already have girls. I didn't realize that it was almost universal in already admitting girls.

Here is the list, https://en.wikipedia.org/...out_Movement_members

Go through that list. Decide whether you want to be more like the countries that don't have girls.

Three things he pointed out as to why it is a good idea. BSA needs more numbers. Gives girls more options. And the most important to him, when there are girls around the boys tend to act less like "feral animals".

I asked him what keeps the numbers down. He said he only gets boys that don't play any sports in school. If they do, the sports now require year round time investment. Safe spaces wouldn't crack the top 10 (or 100).

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Mike Rowe on Scouting and "safe places". [Erin C.] [ In reply to ]
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This is exactly why my brother quit and I didn't continue past cub scouts. We were fine with all the activities and extracurriculars we were doing but asking kids to write reports when their school loads are already high is something they have to consider moving forward. This was in the early 2000's by the way. Also modernizing the uniforms so they do not look like Dwight Schrute may help.
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