Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money?
Quote | Reply
Doing structured workouts with TrainerRoad with a long outdoor ride - Would I get more use out of TR with a smart trainer, or would I be better buying a classic trainer and putting the rest of the money to a power meter? That would mean no ERG mode. But, do I even need erg with TR?
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
We have both set-ups. Personally, I prefer my boring trainer + PM and like that I can then have power outdoors as well.
Hubby prefers to use the Kickr because he likes just being able to pedal indoors without worrying about gearing etc. (He has PMs on his bikes so he gets power outdoors too.)
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Power meter on the bike helps with pacing races outside also, that's as important to me if you're training with power, so I would see that as being a better use of the budget. I use a cyclops fluid 2 with a power meter for the sufferfest and its been working great for me. I've never ridden a smart trainer so IDK, maybe it's the best thing ever, but I'm making amazing progress with my current training. I see no need to spend the money.
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It could be argued either way.

I don't like ERG mode. I prefer to have control of my power, modulate it myself and choose to meet the target. I also think there's value in keeping your concentration focused on the task in hand. A current thread where a few people have mentioned finding it frustrating trying to maintain steady power outside having become accustomed to using ERG mode seems to bear this out. I should disclose, I've only used ERG a couple of times on a borrowed trainer and wasn't a fan, but I don't have vast experience with it.

On the other hand, some people really don't want to have to look at their power figures and control things themselves. They want to set up the workout and then they simply turn the pedals until the workout is done. I think one of the main benefits they see in this is the ability to distract themselves with TV etc.


For me, a power meter is far preferable to a smart trainer. I don't really want ERG mode, I can live without gradient simulation, and I would put much more value in having accurate and consistent power data both indoors and out, including races.
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I know you have an IM coming up, would you want to use the PM during the event? If so, then that's your choice.
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am choosing to sell my erg trainer. I liked it, but want a direct drive and don't think it's worth the price for the smart, direct drive options. I could easily get by shifting on my own. And if you don't have a PM and wouldn't be able to get one if you went with the erg option, it's really a no brainer.

I'm also looking at upgrading to Di2. Seems like it'd be pretty easy to have some set up where Di2 pairs with zwift/TR and you keep a single resistance, but the Di2 auto shifts to maintain the needed power. Obviously would be less fine adjustment, but likely more realistic. Would be a cool way to keep some of the functionality while not dropping all my money in something that stays indoors, but instead is also useful on a ride.
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'd go dumb trainer + powermeter. I've only ever had a dumb trainer. Got a powermeter about 6 years ago and it has really helped me train for and properly pace my longer rides and races. I've done some erg mode training on Computrainers in the past and I have gotten better results from my work on the dumb trainer. Forces me to be more aware of how hard I'm pushing.
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You need to look at a smart trainer as 2 different things. A smart trainer is a power meter AND erg mode. Then, you need to look at how you ride and train and decide if that is where you want to put your money if you have to choose between a smart trainer or a power meter (if you can afford both, its simple, get both ;-)

The power meter part of smart meter can be fully replicated with an on bike power meter and as a huge bonus, you then get power outside. That part is a no brainer so we're really just talking about how much you want erg mode. If you are aiming at a power target, it does not matter if your power number is coming from a smart trainer or a power meter. (In fact, on bike PM's are generally more accurate so if you have both, you will almost always be getting power from the power meter anyways). Erg mode is nice as it basically forces you to ride at the target so it makes wimping out harder, but it is not necessary for TrainerRoad or any other interval type training. It does make Zwift a more immersive experience as you feel the hills and the draft as the trainer changes resistance but lots of people ride Zwift without smart trainers and have tons of fun so while nice, erg mode is not necessary. If you get hooked on training with power, you will want it all the time so it really comes down to how much of your training (and racing) you do outdoors.


Personally, I ride and do intervals outside half the year so I have a dumb trainer and a power meter as I want power 100% of the time. My next trainer may be smart so I can have all the bells and whistles, but personally, I would never ever consider getting a smart trainer instead of a power meter.
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Spartan420 wrote:
Doing structured workouts with TrainerRoad with a long outdoor ride - Would I get more use out of TR with a smart trainer, or would I be better buying a classic trainer and putting the rest of the money to a power meter? That would mean no ERG mode. But, do I even need erg with TR?


I did Fluid trainer+TR for 3 years and more recently am using Kickr (have used it +TR for 2 years, but not right now.)

I much preferred the erg mode with TR over the fluid trainer. A lot less hassle hitting the power targets, and I honestly didn't lose anything whatsover in terms of mental toughness or ability to target watts on race day.

Chasing power numbers without erg mode gets really annoying on long workouts over an hour for me, and I'm pretty mentally tough on indoor training.

Still, I'd be lying if I said the Kickr made me significantly faster - I was about the same resultwise pre and post Kickr. I don't think it's that dissimilar to folks who buy a treadmill (which is equal to erg-mode for running) - most folks don't get a lot faster just by buying a new or better treadmill (obviously!)

The main final consideration is that there is a near-100% chance that if you plunk down the money for a Kickr or erg mode trainer, that you will SOON be spending another $500-$1000 for an outdoor powermeter from race day. There will be no avoiding it once you train with power regularly.
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Spartan420 wrote:
Doing structured workouts with TrainerRoad with a long outdoor ride - Would I get more use out of TR with a smart trainer, or would I be better buying a classic trainer and putting the rest of the money to a power meter? That would mean no ERG mode. But, do I even need erg with TR?

I'm a big advocate of using a "dumb" trainer like a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine and a power meter. Pacing and holding power is a very very important skill for the sort of riding you'll do in a triathlon.
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [AKCrafty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
AKCrafty wrote:
I'd go dumb trainer + powermeter. I've only ever had a dumb trainer. Got a powermeter about 6 years ago and it has really helped me train for and properly pace my longer rides and races. I've done some erg mode training on Computrainers in the past and I have gotten better results from my work on the dumb trainer. Forces me to be more aware of how hard I'm pushing.

Surprised to see multiple folks recommend this. I'm another one of them. Used the dumb + PM setup for a while. Got a cheaper smart trainer. For hard TR interval rides I still revert back to the dumb trainer. I really only utilize the smart trainer / ERG mode on long steady state rides.
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My experience is that the smart trainer setup for exceeds the training value over tradition "dumb" trainer and power meter. Ya, you could mess around with the gearing for more or less resistance, but with a smart trainer, you can be EXACT or experience the most realistic ride next to be outside possible.

After a winter with the cyclops magnus, my FTP is up 60+ watts and when I hit outdoors for long rides, I am faster with less effort.
This never happened with my fluid 2. I topped out the resistance it got mundane to try and keep doing the routines without much variation.

I'm sold on the smart trainers.

Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Depends on how much you train indoors. If most of your riding is indoor, then consider a smart trainer with a heavy flywheel. A direct drive would be my pick. You will get good road feel, accurate power, and interactivity with TrainerRoad or any other app you decide to use. It will make indoor training fun and more tolerable. Eventually, once you experience training with power, you will end up getting a powermeter anyway for outdoor riding :)

However, if you get a cheap classic trainer, a powermeter and you do most of your training indoor, then you will most likely hate your trainer and you powermeter isn't going to do you much good if you don't ride your bike.


SmartBikeTrainers.com || YouTube || My Twitter
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [KG6] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
KG6 wrote:
I'm also looking at upgrading to Di2. Seems like it'd be pretty easy to have some set up where Di2 pairs with zwift/TR and you keep a single resistance, but the Di2 auto shifts to maintain the needed power. Obviously would be less fine adjustment, but likely more realistic. Would be a cool way to keep some of the functionality while not dropping all my money in something that stays indoors, but instead is also useful on a ride.

I don't understand...
When Zwift throws a hill at you, it makes it harder to turn the cranks. If you want to maintain power, you shift down to compensate. If you have two systems (Zwift and Di2) working against each other without your intervention, it will just result in you sitting there, spinning at a consistent power and cadence...just like a dumb trainer.
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [dfroelich] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dfroelich wrote:
KG6 wrote:
I'm also looking at upgrading to Di2. Seems like it'd be pretty easy to have some set up where Di2 pairs with zwift/TR and you keep a single resistance, but the Di2 auto shifts to maintain the needed power. Obviously would be less fine adjustment, but likely more realistic. Would be a cool way to keep some of the functionality while not dropping all my money in something that stays indoors, but instead is also useful on a ride.


I don't understand...
When Zwift throws a hill at you, it makes it harder to turn the cranks. If you want to maintain power, you shift down to compensate. If you have two systems (Zwift and Di2) working against each other without your intervention, it will just result in you sitting there, spinning at a consistent power and cadence...just like a dumb trainer.

Really wouldn't work for something like a zwift race where you control your gearing while it controls the "grade" of your trainer. More for a structured workout. You set your trainer resistance to a steady value which never changes during the workout as with any dumb trainer. Warmup at 150 watts. Then the workout kicks into a 200 watt section and zwift/TR "talks" to the di2 and your power meter and shifts to a harder gear until your power meter is now reading 200 watts. Erg mode does that and fine tunes. Gear changes would obviously have larger step changes, but you can slightly change cadence to hit target power. That's more to real life anyway. It's really not all that usefull as you could just pay attention and change it yourself. Bat at the same time, the control system to do such a think is also very simple to implement.

But again, you couldn't really use it as a zwift racing platform (which I never did anyway)
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [KG6] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
OIC...using Di2 instead of a smart trainer as a way to control resistance. Cool.

Seems like SRAM could do this super quick with their eTap phone app. They could replace trainer road subscription and the cost jump from a dumb to smart trainer with a BT paired phone.

I don't think Di2 is equipped to 'listen' on its Ant+ adapter...could be wrong. I guess you could hack through the USB/charger dongle.
Quote Reply
Re: Indoor Training: Smart Trainer or Classic + Power Meter - Best use of Money? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for the replies.

I'm currently using an old Fluid 2 w/ no PM. I think the estimated power is way off, as in way lower.

I think I will get a new fluid 2 and power meter.
Quote Reply