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What FTP to use in Race Planning
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Got an IM coming up. Was looking on Best Bike Split and got to thinking during my run last night about which FTP to input for the best planning. In the periodized plan I'm following my last FTP test is 8-weeks out. Surely in specialty phase I will increase my FTP a bit more over those 8 weeks. So should I test again 2 weeks out and use that FTP for race day? Or use the old FTP from 8-weeks out? Then I got to wondering, is race planning that calls for 68-72% of FTP during a race taking into account no recent testing or is it assuming race day fitness?
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [cmd111183] [ In reply to ]
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You should use your most accurate FTP test -- almost certainly the one taken closest in time to the race itself. Using the 8 week test would be better than nothing, but far less than ideal. I usually do an FTP test to finish out my Build Phase, just before peaking. That's the one I use for the race.
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [cmd111183] [ In reply to ]
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cmd111183 wrote:
Got an IM coming up. Was looking on Best Bike Split and got to thinking during my run last night about which FTP to input for the best planning. In the periodized plan I'm following my last FTP test is 8-weeks out. Surely in specialty phase I will increase my FTP a bit more over those 8 weeks. So should I test again 2 weeks out and use that FTP for race day? Or use the old FTP from 8-weeks out? Then I got to wondering, is race planning that calls for 68-72% of FTP during a race taking into account no recent testing or is it assuming race day fitness?

This post is the most clever satirical post of the year.
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [cmd111183] [ In reply to ]
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FTP=Fantasy Threshold Power!
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [cmd111183] [ In reply to ]
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cmd111183 wrote:
Got an IM coming up. Was looking on Best Bike Split and got to thinking during my run last night about which FTP to input for the best planning. In the periodized plan I'm following my last FTP test is 8-weeks out. Surely in specialty phase I will increase my FTP a bit more over those 8 weeks. So should I test again 2 weeks out and use that FTP for race day? Or use the old FTP from 8-weeks out? Then I got to wondering, is race planning that calls for 68-72% of FTP during a race taking into account no recent testing or is it assuming race day fitness?

Remember that FTP is an estimate of the power you can hold at steady state on any given day. Even with two weeks you would hope that the number would rise on race day hitting the start well tapered and well fuelled. If you are using WKO4 to estimate your FTP you can also see your time to exhaustion (TTE). For a lower TTE (30-40min) I would drop the target % of FTP lower than BBS suggests. If your TTE is around 60-70 then you could run at what they suggest.

However if well prepared for the race then you would hope to be able to run higher than your current FTP suggests. This is why many suggest "ride with power, not by power". I was doing 16km time trials at around 240 watts and used power to control the start. One day I was sitting on 280 watts after 2km and it just felt so damned easy that I just kept at that. Ended up with a 44 watt PB for the season. If I had ridden to power I would have slowed down. So on the day you have to be the judge of where your power is and how hard to ride.

More times you go through this process the better you will dial in your performance for goal events.

Hamish Ferguson: Cycling Coach
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [Kiwicoach] [ In reply to ]
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Kiwicoach wrote:
cmd111183 wrote:
Got an IM coming up. Was looking on Best Bike Split and got to thinking during my run last night about which FTP to input for the best planning. In the periodized plan I'm following my last FTP test is 8-weeks out. Surely in specialty phase I will increase my FTP a bit more over those 8 weeks. So should I test again 2 weeks out and use that FTP for race day? Or use the old FTP from 8-weeks out? Then I got to wondering, is race planning that calls for 68-72% of FTP during a race taking into account no recent testing or is it assuming race day fitness?


Remember that FTP is an estimate of the power you can hold at steady state on any given day. Even with two weeks you would hope that the number would rise on race day hitting the start well tapered and well fuelled. If you are using WKO4 to estimate your FTP you can also see your time to exhaustion (TTE). For a lower TTE (30-40min) I would drop the target % of FTP lower than BBS suggests. If your TTE is around 60-70 then you could run at what they suggest.

However if well prepared for the race then you would hope to be able to run higher than your current FTP suggests. This is why many suggest "ride with power, not by power". I was doing 16km time trials at around 240 watts and used power to control the start. One day I was sitting on 280 watts after 2km and it just felt so damned easy that I just kept at that. Ended up with a 44 watt PB for the season. If I had ridden to power I would have slowed down. So on the day you have to be the judge of where your power is and how hard to ride.

More times you go through this process the better you will dial in your performance for goal events.
Ironman requires a bit more a plan of judgement of what you aim for than a 16km tt...
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
Kiwicoach wrote:
cmd111183 wrote:
Got an IM coming up. Was looking on Best Bike Split and got to thinking during my run last night about which FTP to input for the best planning. In the periodized plan I'm following my last FTP test is 8-weeks out. Surely in specialty phase I will increase my FTP a bit more over those 8 weeks. So should I test again 2 weeks out and use that FTP for race day? Or use the old FTP from 8-weeks out? Then I got to wondering, is race planning that calls for 68-72% of FTP during a race taking into account no recent testing or is it assuming race day fitness?


Remember that FTP is an estimate of the power you can hold at steady state on any given day. Even with two weeks you would hope that the number would rise on race day hitting the start well tapered and well fuelled. If you are using WKO4 to estimate your FTP you can also see your time to exhaustion (TTE). For a lower TTE (30-40min) I would drop the target % of FTP lower than BBS suggests. If your TTE is around 60-70 then you could run at what they suggest.

However if well prepared for the race then you would hope to be able to run higher than your current FTP suggests. This is why many suggest "ride with power, not by power". I was doing 16km time trials at around 240 watts and used power to control the start. One day I was sitting on 280 watts after 2km and it just felt so damned easy that I just kept at that. Ended up with a 44 watt PB for the season. If I had ridden to power I would have slowed down. So on the day you have to be the judge of where your power is and how hard to ride.

More times you go through this process the better you will dial in your performance for goal events.

Ironman requires a bit more a plan of judgement of what you aim for than a 16km tt...

You don't say!

Hamish Ferguson: Cycling Coach
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [cmd111183] [ In reply to ]
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I'd not use a number I havent ridden for 4+ hours before no matter what my FTP test says. So unless I was going a big ride in the middle of my taper, the 2 week out number would be pretty useless. Seems to me, that test should be more like 3.5-4 weeks out.
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [FlashBazbo] [ In reply to ]
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FlashBazbo wrote:
You should use your most accurate FTP test -- almost certainly the one taken closest in time to the race itself. Using the 8 week test would be better than nothing, but far less than ideal. I usually do an FTP test to finish out my Build Phase, just before peaking. That's the one I use for the race.
How many Ironman races have you done? That is the question I would ask first before giving you advice. If it is none then drop it by 10 to 20 watts...
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [cmd111183] [ In reply to ]
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I only use power to set a 'ceiling' limit that I try to stay under for the first half of the bike, bith IM and HIM. I race largely by feel, and use power numbers as well as heart rate as just another input. Your mantra should be 'ride informed by power, not led by power'
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [rock] [ In reply to ]
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Beat me to it, was going to repeat...

"This is why many suggest "ride with power, not by power"

Hamish Ferguson: Cycling Coach
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [Kiwicoach] [ In reply to ]
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+1 on that ..thats what my coach says.......its a guide not a must do ....if you don't feel good slow down if you feel great you can push more...

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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TizzleDK wrote:
+1 on that ..thats what my coach says.......its a guide not a must do ....if you don't feel good slow down if you feel great you can push more...

It's why I suggest people look at the WKO4 Power Users group on Facebook. To see how coaches and riders are learning from using their power meter.

Many just want to number to guide them. Good luck with that!

Hamish Ferguson: Cycling Coach
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [Trev] [ In reply to ]
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Trev wrote:
cmd111183 wrote:
Got an IM coming up. Was looking on Best Bike Split and got to thinking during my run last night about which FTP to input for the best planning. In the periodized plan I'm following my last FTP test is 8-weeks out. Surely in specialty phase I will increase my FTP a bit more over those 8 weeks. So should I test again 2 weeks out and use that FTP for race day? Or use the old FTP from 8-weeks out? Then I got to wondering, is race planning that calls for 68-72% of FTP during a race taking into account no recent testing or is it assuming race day fitness?

This post is the most clever satirical post of the year.

Retest FTP 2 weeks from main event, ride at a % of the new FTP which you haven't trained at: what could go wrong?
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [Kiwicoach] [ In reply to ]
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Kiwicoach wrote:
TizzleDK wrote:
+1 on that ..thats what my coach says.......its a guide not a must do ....if you don't feel good slow down if you feel great you can push more...

It's why I suggest people look at the WKO4 Power Users group on Facebook. To see how coaches and riders are learning from using their power meter.

Many just want to number to guide them. Good luck with that!
What is Facebook?
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [cmd111183] [ In reply to ]
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You know, and this may sound crazy, but instead of going by what some plan your following calls for, why don't you, and I know this is a far out there idea, but why don't you just look at your data +/- 20 to 30 min of what time you know you can ride? That should give you a pretty good indication of what you can ride.

Let's say you take your last 6 rides from 4:45-5:15 and your power is 201, 205, 211, 202, 220, 206 but your plan calls for 228 watts I suspect you run (hahaha see what I did there) into trouble after you get off the bike.

I mean if you can't hold 68-72% of FTP for 5h or whatever duration you're going to ride, then following that plan's race power targeting is just a dumb idea. On the other hand if you routinely can ride at 78-82% FTP following that plan's race power targeting may be a dumb idea

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Last edited by: desert dude: May 6, 18 13:19
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [cmd111183] [ In reply to ]
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Got an IM coming up. Was looking on Best Bike Split and got to thinking during my run last night about which FTP to input for the best planning. In the periodized plan I'm following my last FTP test is 8-weeks out. Surely in specialty phase I will increase my FTP a bit more over those 8 weeks. So should I test again 2 weeks out and use that FTP for race day? Or use the old FTP from 8-weeks out? Then I got to wondering, is race planning that calls for 68-72% of FTP during a race taking into account no recent testing or is it assuming race day fitness?


The best analysis I've ever heard about IM bike leg efforts is by Coach Gordo Byrne, "Keep backing off the IM bike effort/intensity until you can run your absolute best IM run split" Why? Because, EVERYONE is falling apart on the run - save a few who have been smart about bike course effort intensity. Run to your absolute best of your run performance, which few if any are doing, and you will be passing tons of people on the run, and on your way to a great overall IM performance.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [Kiwicoach] [ In reply to ]
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Kiwicoach wrote:
cmd111183 wrote:
Got an IM coming up. Was looking on Best Bike Split and got to thinking during my run last night about which FTP to input for the best planning. In the periodized plan I'm following my last FTP test is 8-weeks out. Surely in specialty phase I will increase my FTP a bit more over those 8 weeks. So should I test again 2 weeks out and use that FTP for race day? Or use the old FTP from 8-weeks out? Then I got to wondering, is race planning that calls for 68-72% of FTP during a race taking into account no recent testing or is it assuming race day fitness?


Remember that FTP is an estimate of the power you can hold at steady state on any given day. Even with two weeks you would hope that the number would rise on race day hitting the start well tapered and well fuelled. If you are using WKO4 to estimate your FTP you can also see your time to exhaustion (TTE). For a lower TTE (30-40min) I would drop the target % of FTP lower than BBS suggests. If your TTE is around 60-70 then you could run at what they suggest.

However if well prepared for the race then you would hope to be able to run higher than your current FTP suggests. This is why many suggest "ride with power, not by power". I was doing 16km time trials at around 240 watts and used power to control the start. One day I was sitting on 280 watts after 2km and it just felt so damned easy that I just kept at that. Ended up with a 44 watt PB for the season. If I had ridden to power I would have slowed down. So on the day you have to be the judge of where your power is and how hard to ride.

More times you go through this process the better you will dial in your performance for goal events.

anyone else mind f***** by this post?
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Re: What FTP to use in Race Planning [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
You know, and this may sound crazy, but instead of going by what some plan your following calls for, why don't you, and I know this is a far out there idea, but why don't you just look at your data +/- 20 to 30 min of what time you know you can ride? That should give you a pretty good indication of what you can ride.

Let's say you take your last 6 rides from 4:45-5:15 and your power is 201, 205, 211, 202, 220, 206 but your plan calls for 228 watts I suspect you run (hahaha see what I did there) into trouble after you get off the bike.

I mean if you can't hold 68-72% of FTP for 5h or whatever duration you're going to ride, then following that plan's race power targeting is just a dumb idea. On the other hand if you routinely can ride at 78-82% FTP following that plan's race power targeting may be a dumb idea


As Brian said, but worded slightly differently:

If you really have an IM coming up, then target 0.70 IF (range of 0.65-0.75)
go out and see if you can hold 0.70 IF for 3-6 hr bike rides and try to do a short run for 1/2 hr and see how that feels-remember pros hold 0.80 IF for Ironman, not AG athletes, we hold that pace for HIM (I use 0.76 for IM as it's worked for ME)
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...ail-an-ironman-bike/

so you've got to figure out what works best for you, and probably modify any 'plan' you have for an unsupported power target
Last edited by: dtoce: May 6, 18 16:45
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