Whatever you/he decide to do- MAKE SURE HE DOESN'T GET HER PREGNANT!!!!!

She may want to try and live a different life. And sometimes, the easiest way to change that life is to get knocked up by someone with the life you want.

You're exactly right. Chaos breads chaos. Children growing up in dysfunction do not see the world the same way as children from healthy homes. With enough exposure to chaos children's brains stuck in a fight or flight state.

I've seen kids from some pretty messed up families join the military and go on to do very well in life. I've also seen kids that joined the military and didn't make it for the same reasons they wouldn't make it at home. The person needs a chance to turn around, someone to show them it is their best interest, and circumstances that keep it going. The military, and in the Navy Chiefs, are what make that possible.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

That was me. They were offered an opportunity to learn how to and all of the support was provided for them. And it was free. Most chose not to. Living on less to get out of debt was unpalatable to them. Their choice. But their consequences too.

Opportunities abound in this country. Many people won't take advantage of those opportunities. It's obviously easier for some than others, but most people who are failing are failing because of what they have or haven't done for themselves, not because of something someone else did or didn't do.

^^^^^The ignorance of not realizing everyone is not wired the same or from the same circumstances.^^^^^[/quote]
You pretty much described the phrase. Of course everyone isn't wired the same or from the same circumstances. But virtually everyone can make some level of success out of themselves in this country today and saying that some cannot because of their background, etc. discourages them from trying and makes them more likely to stay trapped where they are.

I know it was you

How do you think people could learn if they have never learnt how to?

It takes more than a book or gift subscription for most to change the direction of their lives OR maybe you are right, they just need to try harder

Well, a year of paid for opportunity to learn on-line, in person, on your schedule or on a schedule we'll set for you, do it at home or do it here with us, do it openly or anonymously is a pretty damn good opportunity to learn.

And yes, people do need to fucking try harder. Trying harder is never a bad idea. The harder I work the luckier I get.

The purpose of the anecdote about the Dave Ramsey stuff was to show people like you who think others just need more opportunities that, when given opportunity, a lot of people still won't help themselves. But people like you just look at that and say, well it wasn't the right opportunity.......... At some point people need to stop waiting for things to happen and make them happen, unless they believe you that that's not possible.

http://www.nflplayerengagement.com/...s/isaiah-kacyvenski/

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War is god

Lots of people have no fucking idea how to use opportunities that are presented to them. Why on earth would you think that presenting someone with a subscription, book or a college enrolment would suddenly change multiple generations of family behaviour

Yes, some may change given that opportunity.

Yes, some should work fucking harder

Yes, some will continue to be fuck ups

But the evidence is that more would lift them selves up if they had a little more assistance than a subscription

Luck, privilege, access, mentors, parents, family all play major roles in individuals success along with education

You seem to believe it's just a result of trying harder

I keep telling my bilingual 4 year old to try harder at her third language. She is just not taking it on board and is learning nothing. I have given her all the books and tapes

The fact she can't fucking read may be a contributing factor

This was more or less my thoughts as well. Shitty to punish the girl for having a bad parent, especially if she recognizes her mom is screwed up and wants out of that cycle.

I had loving parents, but, they held me back in a big way. I can't really blame them as they circumstances they came from were pretty messed up and they were just trying to protect me, but, they were all about not rocking the boat. Dont stand out, dont set lofty goals, no joke, my mom's idea of a good career was to go be a garbage man for the city: $20/hr stable union job you can ride out for 35 years to retirement. I was constantly told not to do things, not to try things, don't hang out with kids from Rich families, you can't possibly compete with them, don't bother with University, we aren't cut from the same cloth as "those people" etc. It really did a number on me.

I developed some major anxiety issues that took me years to wrap my head around but I'm glad that somehow, I learned to be a grinder, and developed a huge work ethic with a big angry chip on my shoulder. A big motivator for me was dating girls from successful families and seeing what a normal life could look like. Luckily, no one broke up with me because they didn't like my mom.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I feel bad for the girl but it sounds like your son is thinking straight. First of all I think you said the girl is 15 so I am presuming your son is about the same age. He really is too young to be navigating all the heavy duty stuff going on in that family. My bet is the girl has/will be leading your son into being sexually active with her. Which from her point of view is a win. She makes the bond stronger and she likely sees your son and your family as a good thing for her. And I don't blame her. If he gets that deeply involved emotionally it is going to be tough to be thinking straight about the relationship. Worst case scenario is she "accidentally" gets pregnant. If she is really smart she will avoid getting into a serious emotional relationship for a few years. If she does your son is better off without her.

There is no reason this girl cannot be made to feel like she is still welcome to associate with your family. Maybe your wife can be something of a mentor to her if she has any interest.

There was a girl who got pregnant with a boy in our church. She was 16 he was maybe 17. Her family was a shit show. A family from the church took her in for about 2 years and after that the girl and the father got married and now live together. There were alot of bumps along the way and I don't know if long term it is going to work out but I spoke to the paternal grandfather the other day and so far so good. That was a rare outcome.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

That's exactly right. Have your kid stay away from trailer trash.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Kids in these situations get out by having a positive adult not related to them give them a way to better their situation. It could be a boss, coach, friend, or other great person. Without that help it will be very hard for her.