I would change the heading as I operate on a low carb high fat diet but I certainly don't operate to ketogenic levels. That is a bit misleading...

4 days to adjust to low carb? What a waste of resources with a study like this. 4 months would be more appropriate. I could barely walk up the stairs 4 days into it...

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Vinnie Santana, Multisport Coach
http://www.ironguides.net
* * * Your best is our business. * * *

Different study with different results:

https://jssm.org/...p?id=jssm-17-259.xml

main difference being the adaptation period!

Training at elevation also impacts athletic performance....Any training impacts performance, you only get stronger during rest..., conclusion: rest don't train...

I wonder if you can expand more on the extreme ketosis and tell me what damage it causes?

Bingo. Should have just had them do a 60 hour fast vs 60 hour normal eating and test the results...

I bet he refers to ketoacidosis, which only would matter for type 1 diabetics

http://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/4701/going-for-20-adam-hansen-speaks-ahead-of-the-giro-ditalia


Kind of throws your whole post out the window as garbage... Best study conducted to date probably?

You're referring to Adam Hansen's n=1 self-experimentation as a "study?" Or did I miss the intent of this post.

In any case, from the context it sounds like Hansen occasionally uses the diet as a weight loss tactic. No one's arguing that it can't be effective at weight loss.

There's no mention that he races on the diet.

No idea what you mean by that. Defending a crap post?

Quote from the article was "his scientific approach sees him occasionally adopt a high-fat, low-carb ketogenic diet, which can help him lose 4kg in a week"

Sounds to me like he might do a week or 2 of low carbs in the off season to cut weight. That's not at all the same as racing, or even doing big training blocks, on a low carb diet. If anybody is racing triathlons or competing in grand tours on a low carb diet then I've yet to hear about it.


I still think the best advice is simply to adjust your carb intake to the amount of exercise you're doing on a day by day basis. If you're going for a 4 hour ride then fuel it with some carbs before and during. If you're having a recovery day with easy or no training, then carb intake should be minimal. Certainly for N=1 this works well - I've got good body composition, I'm in good health, and have good energy levels both while exercising and throughout the day.

Actually, HVMN has developed a new ketone ester that looks interesting for athletic performance. I would not be surprised to learn that some grand tour teams are using it.

You can listen to one of the scientists (Brianna Stubbs) who worked on it on the STEM Talk podcast. It's very informative.

You say you are trolling but I'm still waiting for you to explain "extreme ketosis" and the damage it can cause. If you were mistakenly referring to DKA that's fine but that is a very specific medical problem that you have know does not apply to most athletes.

I assumed that was largely the case, what is the problem with that?


So not Ironman?

I think that carbs are the opposite of altitude, you should train low and race high. The article doesn't say anything negative about a ketogenic diet for an endurance athlete, though I still think that you can't train as well in ketosis as when you have some carbs to burn. There is also more to life than racing, so if people are healthy and can control their weight better when using a low carb diet, I would suggest that they do that, even if their training suffers slightly.

This is a perfect example of a study that has accurate conclusions based on a flawed study design. It is likely that anyone making major diet changes for a 4 day period will have reduced performance, wether they are greatly reducing, or greatly increasing carbohydrates. Additionally it is important to understand you cannot instantly switch a switch to become efficient at burning dominant fats for exercise, it takes time and proper training. In my experience it is typically at least 3-6 months for good adaptation. The author also does not state what he is defining as low carb. In general these types of studies use a level well below 10%, which there is significant evidence to support is too low for sustained long term health. He further states that a normal level of carbs is 60%. While this is true today, it has only been true since post 1950, and this level of carbs coincides very closely to the dramatic rise in obesity, diabetes, Alzheimer’s, and cancer. Most of the history of our species the self selected ratio of carbs has been approx 25%, with about 60% healthy fats. Many studies have demonstrated that significant reduction in fat intake, combined with increase of carbs results in hormonal imbalances, particularly insulin and estrogen, and a significant reduction in the immune system.
Bottom line is like with many things, balance is key. In regard to what is balanced, I would suggest looking more closely at what was “normal” for the roughly the 2 million years of man before 1950 as opposed to the 50 years after :-) Dr. Stephen Le has an excellent book on this subject.
The author also fails to note the literally hundreds (more likely thousands) of athletes who are performing at world class levels on low carb ( less than 30%) diets.

Carbs get a lot of snack nowadays as a reason for a lot of health issues as you have stated. On the other side, you have the vegan movement claiming all those issues stem from increased consumtion of animal products. I don't believe that. But neither do I belive that carbs are the enemy. Why do some native people consume high amount of carbs and are very healthy? There are a lot of examples.

I believe the problem is in the processed foods and not in carbs. But my favourite carb sources are potatoes, rice, fruit, veggies, oats etc. and not cookies and white flour and candy.

What I also wonder is how a low carb diet fares in the long run. I always think that carbs light the fire and they help me to burn calories. Sure you can limit carbs for a while and lose weight. But what happens to your fire (that is your Metabolismus) when you do it for too long? I am not sure. But I don't want to be that person, that in ten years only has to look at food to gain weight.

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

Great question- My main reason for retooling my diet, at age 60, was a annual physical that showed I was pre diabetic, just short of an A1C level for full diabetes. My diet for years consisted of dominately healthy Whole Foods, with the exception of race and training carbs. My typical daily carb intake was around the 60% noted by the study author. After doing months of detailed research I made the switch. It is very important to note that historical “normal” for carbs is less than 30%, not the 60% of the past 50 years. Results of my N=1 (actually I have learned N= many)- Zero weight loss (already was at 8-10% body fat @ 60 years old); A1C levels back at mid normal after 15 months, “normal” cold/flu incidence from 2-3 a year to zero in the last 3 years, total loss of “old man” stiff sore knees, and no nutrition bonks in any long races for the past 2 years.
This is not a new diet, it is a return to old school, balanced, proper eating.
FYI- I was cruising along for years as a happy carb monster, until it all started unraveling, beginning with a increasing glucose intolerance, and culminating on the verge of dehabilitating diabetes. I have met literally dozens of Multisport athletes from mid 30’s to mid 60’s with similar stories. I am certain there are many different diets that can work, but the science is conclusive- too low of carbs (less than 15%) and too high of carbs ( more than 40%), long term, is not healthy. The societal evidence is overwhelming.
I encourage everyone to do their own research, but please be careful to review and consider historical norms, as in the past several centuries, not the past few decades :-) Good luck, and happy eating!

That is the magic ingredient for good health is natural unprocessed carbs that have fibre. On longer sessions 3+ hours I may supplement my nutrition generally bananas with an energy drink and gels closer to IM racing only to replicate what I do in races but my health and performance has only improved on a LCHF diet. I still eat generally sourdough sandwiches for convenience and I enjoy them and I still do eat carbs if I feel like them but I generally avoid them to a certain extent but as I say they have a natural fibre content.