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Can't breathe well while running
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I'm fine, but my friend has complained to me a lot that she can't catch her breath when she runs (especially when doing hills). It's like she can almost get a full lungful, but not quite, so she is eventually forced to walk until she can finally get a deep breath. She says she has been tested for asthma and it came up negative, and her doctors can't think of what else might be wrong.

Today was a bit muggy and she was really struggling on a 5km trail run. She's done endurance sports for at least 10 years and has just dealt with this problem, but for an otherwise strong person it makes no sense that she can hardly breathe after a bit of uphill.

She has considered getting a spiro trainer to see if that helps.

Thoughts? If she isn't asthmatic then what might be the issue?
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [Furiosa] [ In reply to ]
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DM Henri Schoeman, he can probably advise her.
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [Furiosa] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like a basic fitness issue related to going into the red. The best way to check if this is true is to do a bit of testing with a HR monitor.

What she is describing is exactly what I expect from someone going into oxygen debt who has not done the speed work to match the effort. HR data will clearly indicate if the shortness of breath is correlated with working at an unsustainable level.

This is a very common issue with endurance athletes who have never been exposed to formal run coaching. They not only screw up the pacing on hills but rarely if ever do training session at a pace which is much faster than race pace. The best prescription in hitting the track or doing hill repeats at an effort which is much harder than race pace.
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [scott8888] [ In reply to ]
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She does some yoga, but not regularly.

She's tall, and does tend to lean forward.

Her HR last night indicated Zone 3 or 4 when we were aiming for Zone 2 ( except on the hills).

She was a sprinter in high school but that was 20 years ago so shouldn't have any effect now...should it?

We are both training for a 50k mountain run in August, so she's training 5-6 days/week.
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [Furiosa] [ In reply to ]
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How steep are the 'hills'.

Unless/until you have trained for hill work, I would expect slowing to almost walking above about 5% unless you want to be breathing very hard.
At 8%+, no question about it.
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [Furiosa] [ In reply to ]
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  An EIB/EIA sufferer will generally test negative for asthma using standard protocol, if I'm not mistaken. I believe I have a bit of it myself but it doesn't hamper me too much, just that those deep breaths elude me.

I'm only an M.D. on the Internet, so take this post with a grain of salt.
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
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We have hills in Alberta! We do!

Walking hills for both of us is standard practice. There are lots of very steep hills around here, but they are not always very long. I can sometimes run up and keep going, whereas my friend will be pretty distressed for a few moments once she reaches the top. So she nearly always walks the hills.

She does haul ass on the descents, at least.
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [patricio2626] [ In reply to ]
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If she figures out how to go hard uphill and doesn't need to catch a breath, please let me know!
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [patricio2626] [ In reply to ]
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For my whole life when I would run I felt like I could not get a good breath of air after maybe a mile...no matter how deep I breathed I just could not fill my lungs. Id race through it and when i was done (say a 5k at full out) I would die at the end and it would take me 20 mins to be able to breath as if I was sitting.

turns out I was basically running through asthma attacks. Exercise induced asthma. I saw 2 doctors because I did not think that was the case. I got an inhaler I take two breaths of before I race - and holy hell - the amount of air volume I can pull in while running now is absurd (which I guess is normal) I just didn't know what normal is.

might have her go see a doc if she has a cheap copay and health insurance. Worth the $35 dollar visit. Was for me.

except now i will have to get a TUE because Albuterol is a WADA banned substance (i believe)
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [LuchaLibre] [ In reply to ]
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only if taking it with a diuretic or masking agent, or really going overboard on doses
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [TriStart] [ In reply to ]
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Lol! Yeah we have no illusions that this whole running thing is supposed to be taxing.

She was wondering if she was affected by humidity or the weather. Saturday was sunny and warm, and she ran a challenging 8km trail race and felt good overall, but yesterday was muggy and she struggled on a not-so-challenging 5km trail run and felt desperately out of breath for most of it. We were taking it really easy to begin with.
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [Furiosa] [ In reply to ]
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Furiosa wrote:
We have hills in Alberta! We do!

Walking hills for both of us is standard practice. There are lots of very steep hills around here, but they are not always very long. I can sometimes run up and keep going, whereas my friend will be pretty distressed for a few moments once she reaches the top. So she nearly always walks the hills.

She does haul ass on the descents, at least.

Aside from the potential asthma (get that checked out.) - sounds like recovery/anaerobic fitness to me.

Ignore the 'hills' bit - if you are running, or on a bike, and every 10th minute you did full gas, then unless you have trained recovery you'd find it difficult to keep going in the 11th minute. But as your anaerobic engine gets better and your recovery from anaerobic level efforts faster (I don't know if aerobic recovery also helps this or not, it may do) then you can go into the red up the hill, hit the top and keep going at effort.

Make sense?
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [patricio2626] [ In reply to ]
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EIA/EIB means...?
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [Furiosa] [ In reply to ]
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She also mentioned that even when she isn't running, a flight of stairs will wind her. Or even walking and talking on the phone.

I showed her the feedback so far and she said the responses so far make sense to varying degrees, and appreciates the input so far.
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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jeffp wrote:
only if taking it with a diuretic or masking agent, or really going overboard on doses

Oh that is good to know! I will probably do it either way just to cover my a$$ (not that I am ever front of pack haha) better safe than sorry

Also to the OP - if she gets winded with stairs and on the phone - how about she goes to the doctor. That sounds like something that should REALLY be checked out.
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [Furiosa] [ In reply to ]
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Furiosa wrote:
I'm fine, but my friend has complained to me a lot that she can't catch her breath when she runs (especially when doing hills). It's like she can almost get a full lungful, but not quite, so she is eventually forced to walk until she can finally get a deep breath. She says she has been tested for asthma and it came up negative, and her doctors can't think of what else might be wrong.

Today was a bit muggy and she was really struggling on a 5km trail run. She's done endurance sports for at least 10 years and has just dealt with this problem, but for an otherwise strong person it makes no sense that she can hardly breathe after a bit of uphill.

She has considered getting a spiro trainer to see if that helps.

Thoughts? If she isn't asthmatic then what might be the issue?

All other response are good. I'll add that I've always found relaxing my shoulders and wiggling my arms helps. Taking a few really good exhales seems to aid as well.

Also, this can be a mental thing. If you are trying to get a deep breath and can't, you keep trying and up your anxiety/focus about not getting a deep breath and the circle continues until you convince yourself you're dying and need to walk.
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [Furiosa] [ In reply to ]
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EIA = exercise-induced asthma, EIB = exercise-induced bronchoconstriction
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [patricio2626] [ In reply to ]
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let's not forget VCD, though doesn't sound likely if only uphill
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
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We haven't focused a ton on hill repeats as of yet but will be doing those regularly pretty soon, prob 1-2x per week. I admit I have avoided them because I hate them but my friend has avoided them because they are literally very distressing. That said, the group run sessions we went to a few weeks ago were pretty intense, even for the FOP folks. Maybe we bit off more than we could chew at that point.
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [Furiosa] [ In reply to ]
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She needs a heart check up to rule out any serious problems especially if she is having any kind of irregular heart beats. The chances are all is well but you cannot be too cautious with endurance sports.
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [Trimum] [ In reply to ]
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She's never mentioned irregular heartbeats.
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [Furiosa] [ In reply to ]
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good article on the various possibilities,

https://www.irunfar.com/...durance-running.html


how was the asthma test done ?
if it wasn't done during exercise while the problem was occurring it may not be valid..

borrow someone's albuterol/salmeterol inhaler (this is legal and not doping) and take it before the hills.
if it helps then that is diagnostic..



Last edited by: doug in co: May 3, 18 10:47
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [Trimum] [ In reply to ]
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Trimum wrote:
She needs a heart check up to rule out any serious problems especially if she is having any kind of irregular heart beats. The chances are all is well but you cannot be too cautious with endurance sports.

^This.

A few years ago I started having trouble breathing while running, but no issues when cycling or swimming. It got to the point where 2 years ago it just became impossible to run at all, and I was beginning to occasionally have similar issues on the bike. I would also find myself getting winded when climbing a flight of stairs, but multiple visits to pulmonary specialists turned up nothing. Just over a year ago, I went into persistent afib (I had no signs of afib before this). A few months ago I had an ablation, and so far the difference has been night and day. No more getting winded on stairs, I'm starting to run again, and on the bike I'm beating PRs I set a few years ago despite being overweight and out of shape...

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: Can't breathe well while running [doug in co] [ In reply to ]
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doug in co wrote:


how was the asthma test done ?
if it wasn't done during exercise while the problem was occurring it may not be valid..

borrow someone's albuterol/salmeterol inhaler (this is legal and not doping) and take it before the hills.
if it helps then that is diagnostic..




I'll second this.

The spirometry will have to be done pre/post exercise to see test of EIB / EIA.

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com
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