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Carbohydrate/Protein While Racing
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Just read the Triathlete article regarding protein supplimentation during long distance racing. I've tried Accelerade but simply can't stand the taste when it's warm. I like CarboPro for the carbohydrate piece of the puzzle. What else is out there as an alternative to Accelerade?

Tinman
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Re: Carbohydrate/Protein While Racing [tinman] [ In reply to ]
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I have used Hammergel's Sustained Energy as well as their new product Perpetuem both of which give you protien with carbs. Both are only Ok when cold (just MHO) but not when warm. I don't have a ton of experience here but it seems that anything with protien is susceptible to taste issues when warm. I have read of using Perpetuem made super concentrated in to a paste (like using a gel) which may make it better as you could take shots of paste with plain water from Jetstream/bottle? Like I said i read this in a post somewhere, haven't done myself. As to the use of protien I was advised by the creator of e-Load (an MD) that protien is not a requirement and that "no triathlete has ever not finished a race due to protien deficiency". I am still researching on my own whether or not protien is really needed for fueling...just my .02
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Re: Carbohydrate/Protein While Racing [woodenshoes] [ In reply to ]
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Carbohydrate is what is needed - period. Now there is some discussion that for REALLY long events, there MAY be a need for Fat/Protein in the mix. When they say really long, an IM may be at the threshold of being realky long.

The things that need to be kept in mind are as follows:

1) As intensity increases the need for carbohydrate as fuel at the muscular level increases

2) The body has stores of about 2 hours of Carbohydrates - hence the "wall" at 20 miles or 2 hours of a marathon if nothing taken in.

3)As intensity increases gastric(stomach) absorbtion and functionality decreases

4) As more complicated substrates( fats/proteins) are added to what ever is taken in gastric functionaity is further comprimised.

In summary - If training racing longer than 2 hours carbohydrates need to be taken in and the process needs to be simple as possible due to the increased demands put on the stamach. Not sure why so many people have these incredibly complex and complicated routines that from what I have seen can lead to more problems, then the simple task of getting carbohydrates to the muscles as quickly and easily as possible.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Carbohydrate/Protein While Racing [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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If I read the article in Triathlete correctly, the research says that protein in specific amounts help keep the carbs coming to the muscles quicker than just carbs alone due to an increased insulin response. Obviously this is in a lab setting so what happens in the real world of IM, who knows. As I read the research, if you are one of the subjects of the test, you go longer before exhaustion occurs. In an IM does that mean, for a person like me, I will run out of fuel at 13 hr vice 13.5? Don't know but anything that could possibly give me the opportunity to go longer with a little more speed would help.

Larry

Don't be afraid to ride too long or too hard. That's what cell phones are for. Rich Strauss
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Re: Carbohydrate/Protein While Racing [letter] [ In reply to ]
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Per some prior posts, I've been experimenting with lots of different combos over the past 2 years. In sum, Accelerade and Sustained Energy don't work great for me. Both leave me feeling "flat" and hungry.

The combo I'm currently using is 2 scoops GPush G3 (has protein, 10-15% if I remember correctly) and 1 scoop Carbo-Pro, starting after the first hour on a 3+ hour workout. The first hour is often straight Carbo-Pro. So far, it really seems to work well. Taste is great; I've felt no stomach discomfort; the drinks leave me feeling energized. And there's none of the peak/plummet of sugar bombs like Gatorade and CytoMax, which I would only use for shorter (<2.5 hour) workouts or races.

I'm sure there's an art and a science to all this. I don't understand most of the science, so I've simply been experimenting with what works well for me. Literally, for the first time, I've found something that I think might be my trick. Consider giving the GPush and Carbo-Pro combo a try.
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Re: Carbohydrate/Protein While Racing [tinman] [ In reply to ]
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Tinman, I'm a Carbo Pro fiend as well. A coach had me try the protein thing a couple of years ago. One bottle of Sustained Energy was as much as I could stand. I began using amino acid tablets that I would carry in a film canister. These were on run/bike/run sessions lasting 3.5 to 4.5 hours, and I don't know that I ever noticed a difference with or without the protein. I don't do IM's, so I can't attest to the impact on that distance.
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Re: Carbohydrate/Protein While Racing [tinman] [ In reply to ]
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I use Perpetuem exclusively on the bike for 1/2IM and Ironman and I love it. www.e-caps.com.
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Re: Carbohydrate/Protein While Racing [aardvark] [ In reply to ]
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"The combo I'm currently using is 2 scoops GPush G3 (has protein, 10-15% if I remember correctly)"



Actually G3 has no protien at all (none of the G-Push products do) it's a 10% carbohydrate solution though. Never used or looked at Carbo-Pro if it has protien. Tried using some G3 once on a short workout (had run out of G1 and G2) and it turned my gut upside down. My guess is I shocked my gut with a 10% solution without having used up some glycogen stores after the recommended 2 hours of exercise before starting on G3? Thought this was worth mentioning as the percent carb solution and osmolality of a fluid is so important to prevent GI distress as I found out!
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Re: Carbohydrate/Protein While Racing [woodenshoes] [ In reply to ]
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Oops, my bad. You're right that GPush G3 does not have protein. Guess I'll have to experiment with adding some to see if it makes a difference.
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Re: Carbohydrate/Protein While Racing [aardvark] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Oops, my bad. You're right that GPush G3 does not have protein. Guess I'll have to experiment with adding some to see if it makes a difference.


Just checked out the GPush website. Although G3 has less than 1G protein per serving, the product description lists the following as ingredients / benefits:
  • Contains the protein "hydrolysate" which combines with the carbohydrate in the drink to reduce the time needed for the body to rebuild its glycogen reserves.
  • The protein "hydrolysate" also contains "glutamine" an amino acid which acts as a strong antioxidant and is found particularly lacking in athletes after exercise.
  • Also contains lactoferrin, an iron binding glycoprotein which reduces excess iron which would otherwise catalyse the formation of unwanted free radicals.


  • Don't know whether or not these things substitute for the higher-concentration protein benefits listed in article about protein. It's all pretty confusing to me, so I'm trying and erring.
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    Re: This just in!! Carbohydrate/Protein While Racing [aardvark] [ In reply to ]
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    Just received this from Active.com by coincidence. Haven't read it in depth yet but the Carb + Protien debate continues. Won't go in to all of the details other than the article has alot of referneces to studies that promotes protien in racing, I pasted the link to the article below.

    http://www.active.com/...p;category=eat_right
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    Re: This just in!! Carbohydrate/Protein While Racing [woodenshoes] [ In reply to ]
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    I've heard that it's a better idea to take soy protein while exercising compared to whey or other animal derivatives. Anyone heard this and have a compelling reason?
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    Re: This just in!! Carbohydrate/Protein While Racing [DabossAJK] [ In reply to ]
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    Click on the link below to Hammergel's (e-caps) fueling handbook in pdf format. Alot of information and it explains why you should train/race on soy and recover with whey protien.

    http://www.e-caps.com/.../fuelinghandbook.pdf
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    Re: Carbohydrate/Protein While Racing [tinman] [ In reply to ]
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    Supplementing protein and fat in a sports drink that is intended to be used during an endurance event is nonsense. A 164 lb male with 12% body fat has approx. 74,000 KCal of stored fat and approx. 1,500 KCal of stored glucose (muscle/liver glycogen, blood sugar). There is obviously plenty of fat available as fuel. What the people at Accelerade et al. are saying is that by adding protein to a carbohydrate drink there will be a greater insulin response, which is true. However, this is exactly what an endurance athlete does not want. High levels of blood sugar and corresponding high levels of insulin will inhibit fatty acid metabolism, which means your body is unable to utilize as much fat for fuel. This puts greater responsibility on the athlete to consume more carbohydrate during the event. Those nasty words like "bonk" and the "wall" are representitive of muscle glycogen depletion. These high-glycemic fuel sources prevent you from tapping the fat for fuel. High levels of insulin are not needed for carbohydrate absorption during exercise because during exercise the insulin receptors on the muscle cell membranes are very sensitive to insulin. IMHO lower-glycemic carbohydrates are the fuel of choice during endurance events because they provide a more consistant/constant supply of fuel to the muscles. These carbo-protein drinks are better served as recovery drinks vs. during the event. What is also of great concern is that many sport drink manufacturers use yellow food dye in their product. Yellow food dye is a bronchioconstrictor, that is it constricts lung tissue, exactly what you do not want during a race.

    Keith
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