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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [mickison] [ In reply to ]
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I started on Zwift. I watched the GCN vid of Si Richardson racing and it seemed amazing!

So I jumped on and raced Richmond on my second day and lol and behold- it was amazing. The feeling of going Mano v Mano was just like a real race!

I progressed quickly into C Cat and then edged my way towards B and by the end of the summer, was starting to wonder who I was racing against. How did Zwift compare to real Crit racing? (I’d only ever done low level MTB racing beforehand)

So I entered a real Crit and got hooked on that! Turns out Zwift racing is good but not a patch on the real thing.

Wanting to make faster progress, I dug out my copy of the Bible and wrote myself a plan.
None of the workouts on Zwift offered what I was looking for I felt.

As I raced more outside, Zwift racing became a nuisance and I backed off.

Then a friend told me about the TR podcast and after a few episodes, I got curious so gave it a try. And what I found was basically The Cyclists Training Bible in app format!!

So now, I subscribe to both. I ride all my TR workouts simultaneously on Zwift to log some Strava data. Then if my mojo is low and I know I’m good for a workout but can’t get my bum in gear- I jump into a very occasional Zwift race.
I’m fat so can still race in B and usually get a great race.

To be honest, TR is worth the money for the Podcast alone. Then add in the workout library and it’s great value. But the real killer is the plans. It’s so great having weekly TSS, calories and nicely balanced yet challenging workouts at your finger tips laid out in an incrementally challenging fashion.

To me-
Zwift is a place. A place to do recovery rides, Hill repeats, races, social spins, your TR intervals and an occasional KOM attempt.
TR is a tool. All the cycling training science you really need wrapped up in a super slick app with all the variety you could wish for.

And when TR launch Performance Analytics- it’s going to make Zwift look like something off of the kids Vtec 🤣
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [Crosshair] [ In reply to ]
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Crosshair wrote:
I started on Zwift. I watched the GCN vid of Si Richardson racing and it seemed amazing!

So I jumped on and raced Richmond on my second day and lol and behold- it was amazing. The feeling of going Mano v Mano was just like a real race!

I progressed quickly into C Cat and then edged my way towards B and by the end of the summer, was starting to wonder who I was racing against. How did Zwift compare to real Crit racing? (I’d only ever done low level MTB racing beforehand)

So I entered a real Crit and got hooked on that! Turns out Zwift racing is good but not a patch on the real thing.

Wanting to make faster progress, I dug out my copy of the Bible and wrote myself a plan.
None of the workouts on Zwift offered what I was looking for I felt.

As I raced more outside, Zwift racing became a nuisance and I backed off.

Then a friend told me about the TR podcast and after a few episodes, I got curious so gave it a try. And what I found was basically The Cyclists Training Bible in app format!!

So now, I subscribe to both. I ride all my TR workouts simultaneously on Zwift to log some Strava data. Then if my mojo is low and I know I’m good for a workout but can’t get my bum in gear- I jump into a very occasional Zwift race.
I’m fat so can still race in B and usually get a great race.

To be honest, TR is worth the money for the Podcast alone. Then add in the workout library and it’s great value. But the real killer is the plans. It’s so great having weekly TSS, calories and nicely balanced yet challenging workouts at your finger tips laid out in an incrementally challenging fashion.

To me-
Zwift is a place. A place to do recovery rides, Hill repeats, races, social spins, your TR intervals and an occasional KOM attempt.
TR is a tool. All the cycling training science you really need wrapped up in a super slick app with all the variety you could wish for.

And when TR launch Performance Analytics- it’s going to make Zwift look like something off of the kids Vtec 🤣
Good post.

Place versus tool. Not a bad way of putting it I think.
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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dunno wrote:
TriguyBlue wrote:
dunno wrote:
If what you are seeing has no correlation to what you are 'riding' then you might as well be watching the MotoGP


I don’t understand your argument. What you are seeing is directly correlated to the effort you put in if you dontrun trainer road on ergo mode. It’s exactly the same as doing a workout outdoors, do 2w/kg and you’ll go slow, do 4w/kg and you’ll go fast.

Sorry I must not be understanding how it works properly. If I load a trainer road or any interval based type workout into Zwift for example won’t the resistance be changing independant of what I’m seeing the terrain doing in front of me?

For example-the beginning of an interval of increased resistance could start at the start of a decent, and then based on timing I could experience a decrease in resistance at as I start to go up a hill.

Or have I got this all wrong?

I’m not sure, I’ve never loaded a workout into zwift. I let zwift control my trainer in sim mode and adjust my effort just as i would outside with my workout written down on paper.
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [TriguyBlue] [ In reply to ]
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I like Zwift personally but I think Trainerroad is good as well. I've went away from Trainerroad because I simply do too many outdoor group rides or races to be consistent with the plans. If you're locked in a basement where its snowed in that may be great but SoCal we ride outdoors year round so any plan has to adjust for the outdoors.

What lures me to Zwift is the racing. I can go balls out for an hour at near FTP with very few surges or stops. The only other place around here I can do that is Onyx Summit or Glendora Mountain Road which are unrideable half the year.

Then again, maybe I'll do Trainerroad this winter. After descending and bouncing over a beer bottle at 35 mph in pitch black my opinion of night riding has changed. That being said, I'll still be outside on the weekends.
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
dunno wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
No, I think you're missing the point.
That's rather like saying that going outside on your bike is just for casual/leisure rides and is not a structured serious training approach. It's a deceptively selective description that has much more to do with your existing ideas than the reality.

Not everyone trains by following a predetermined, structured, power based workout for every single ride. From your posts to date it seems like you are assuming all serious riders do and all other activities are "just" casual/leisure rides. Would that be accurate?

I don’t want to get into semantics but isn’t going out for ‘leisurely/casual’ ride by its definition is not a serious training approach. 80kms of balls to the wall intervals for example is going to do a lot for me than a nice leisurely 80km ride at a quarter of the effort with my wife IMHO.

But I understand the point you are trying to make so don’t take it the wrong way. What ever works to keep people moving is what works.
Are you intentionally misconstruing this?
No one but you is talking about leusurely rides.

Please re read what you quoted if this is an honest misunderstanding. It seems more like trolling but I don't think you're a troll.

The purpose of the quoted post was literally to point out that not all hard training needs to be structured workouts and thus characterising Zwift as for casual/leisure rides was nonsense.
Then you come back saying a nice easy ride isn't as effective as a hard one.
Playing games, or comprehension problem?

Ahhh every forum has one. Relax max, no need to be a wanker about it. At first I had in my mind that most people were just jumping on and ‘going for a ride’ as that’s what I see a lot of on Zwift. But now reading all the comments I understand a lot of people are using it for group rides and races and I totally understand how this can be an effective training tool.

Not everyone in the world is out to get you mate..
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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dunno wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
dunno wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
No, I think you're missing the point.
That's rather like saying that going outside on your bike is just for casual/leisure rides and is not a structured serious training approach. It's a deceptively selective description that has much more to do with your existing ideas than the reality.

Not everyone trains by following a predetermined, structured, power based workout for every single ride. From your posts to date it seems like you are assuming all serious riders do and all other activities are "just" casual/leisure rides. Would that be accurate?

I don’t want to get into semantics but isn’t going out for ‘leisurely/casual’ ride by its definition is not a serious training approach. 80kms of balls to the wall intervals for example is going to do a lot for me than a nice leisurely 80km ride at a quarter of the effort with my wife IMHO.

But I understand the point you are trying to make so don’t take it the wrong way. What ever works to keep people moving is what works.
Are you intentionally misconstruing this?
No one but you is talking about leusurely rides.

Please re read what you quoted if this is an honest misunderstanding. It seems more like trolling but I don't think you're a troll.

The purpose of the quoted post was literally to point out that not all hard training needs to be structured workouts and thus characterising Zwift as for casual/leisure rides was nonsense.
Then you come back saying a nice easy ride isn't as effective as a hard one.
Playing games, or comprehension problem?

Ahhh every forum has one. Relax max, no need to be a wanker about it. At first I had in my mind that most people were just jumping on and ‘going for a ride’ as that’s what I see a lot of on Zwift. But now reading all the comments I understand a lot of people are using it for group rides and races and I totally understand how this can be an effective training tool.

Not everyone in the world is out to get you mate..
You're right. I'm the one who's misconstruing stuff ;)

...and don't "mate" me if you don't mind.
I'm just looking out for your own dignity. Anyone who reads that post is going to assume you're a total ass. Might be wise to tweak it a wee bit.
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
dunno wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
dunno wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
No, I think you're missing the point.
That's rather like saying that going outside on your bike is just for casual/leisure rides and is not a structured serious training approach. It's a deceptively selective description that has much more to do with your existing ideas than the reality.

Not everyone trains by following a predetermined, structured, power based workout for every single ride. From your posts to date it seems like you are assuming all serious riders do and all other activities are "just" casual/leisure rides. Would that be accurate?

I don’t want to get into semantics but isn’t going out for ‘leisurely/casual’ ride by its definition is not a serious training approach. 80kms of balls to the wall intervals for example is going to do a lot for me than a nice leisurely 80km ride at a quarter of the effort with my wife IMHO.

But I understand the point you are trying to make so don’t take it the wrong way. What ever works to keep people moving is what works.
Are you intentionally misconstruing this?
No one but you is talking about leusurely rides.

Please re read what you quoted if this is an honest misunderstanding. It seems more like trolling but I don't think you're a troll.

The purpose of the quoted post was literally to point out that not all hard training needs to be structured workouts and thus characterising Zwift as for casual/leisure rides was nonsense.
Then you come back saying a nice easy ride isn't as effective as a hard one.
Playing games, or comprehension problem?

Ahhh every forum has one. Relax max, no need to be a wanker about it. At first I had in my mind that most people were just jumping on and ‘going for a ride’ as that’s what I see a lot of on Zwift. But now reading all the comments I understand a lot of people are using it for group rides and races and I totally understand how this can be an effective training tool.

Not everyone in the world is out to get you mate..
You're right. I'm the one who's misconstruing stuff ;)

...and don't "mate" me if you don't mind.
I'm just looking out for your own dignity. Anyone who reads that post is going to assume you're a total ass. Might be wise to tweak it a wee bit.

Lol no worries mate
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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I am addicted to Zwift! I have seen major improvements in my speed and endurance.
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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Zwift is amazing in my opinion. If used correctly it can have a huge impact on speed and endurance. Sure some people use it for the social aspect and I get that. It has room for both. I’m a pure cyclist venturing into the tri world and for me it’s been incredible.
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [Wattage_Cottage] [ In reply to ]
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Let me just say that I have been cycling for many many years. I have always hated riding the trainer. Even as a training tool in the winter. I always much prefered spinning classes or even just the exercise bike at the Gym. So my old trainer just sat in the basement un-used. Thanks to Zwift, I actually now love riding the trainer. This is in part due to the interaction/motivation of chasing people down and the (in my opinion) realistic feel to being outside. It's not a perfect solution, but at least now I look forward to training inside when I can't get outside.
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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I think it's mostly your mindset. I've been on Zwift using the TP Custom workouts (which are TR planed sessions). For me I can't watch TV while riding my bike, I need to take things in fully and the cycling is a distraction from the videos. To be immersed in the sessions I need to see bicycles moving and then the training session becomes more like outdoor riding. When I am training it's like a Triathlon event where I'm biking through a pack passing people and I "mark men" like a race. Before an interval starts I mark a decently strong rider in the list (up the road say +50s for a shot 3-4 minute interval). During my interval I am in suspense whether or not I'll close the gap before my recovery. Then I repeat that each time.

Maybe that shows how it can be used? Maybe this is just me?

------
"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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I have used both TR and Zwift - I find Zwift way more interesting that TR. I like to jump on find a race and jump into the fray. Its hard as crap and that is what I like - it pulls me into a tougher workout than I intended. I have chatted with a ton of friends and most are becoming Zwift zealots. TR is still very cool - I used to use it with the sufferfest videos which I also loved. Cheers Michael

Michael Hay - helped on the journey by the great folks at ZiZU Optics, (for the custom fit), and Bialkowlski's TRYSPORT
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [tri4balance] [ In reply to ]
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tri4balance wrote:
I have used both TR and Zwift - I find Zwift way more interesting that TR. I like to jump on find a race and jump into the fray. Its hard as crap and that is what I like - it pulls me into a tougher workout than I intended. I have chatted with a ton of friends and most are becoming Zwift zealots. TR is still very cool - I used to use it with the sufferfest videos which I also loved. Cheers Michael

My concern for Zwift is for people who have been using it since beta, not that much has changed. They need to constantly add more content or they will slowly bleed out. At this point there are no more challenges to unlock, no new stuff to unlock, and the map content gets released at a snails pace. The graphics are still light years behind and for many it still crashes on a much to frequent basis. Zwift has a lot of work to do.
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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Ron_Burgundy wrote:
tri4balance wrote:
I have used both TR and Zwift - I find Zwift way more interesting that TR. I like to jump on find a race and jump into the fray. Its hard as crap and that is what I like - it pulls me into a tougher workout than I intended. I have chatted with a ton of friends and most are becoming Zwift zealots. TR is still very cool - I used to use it with the sufferfest videos which I also loved. Cheers Michael

My concern for Zwift is for people who have been using it since beta, not that much has changed. They need to constantly add more content or they will slowly bleed out. At this point there are no more challenges to unlock, no new stuff to unlock, and the map content gets released at a snails pace. The graphics are still light years behind and for many it still crashes on a much to frequent basis. Zwift has a lot of work to do.

I started out with the beta and didn’t really get into it. Came back later and the group workouts, group rides, races were a huge change. Specifically how easy they were to find and join
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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Ron_Burgundy wrote:
tri4balance wrote:
I have used both TR and Zwift - I find Zwift way more interesting that TR. I like to jump on find a race and jump into the fray. Its hard as crap and that is what I like - it pulls me into a tougher workout than I intended. I have chatted with a ton of friends and most are becoming Zwift zealots. TR is still very cool - I used to use it with the sufferfest videos which I also loved. Cheers Michael


My concern for Zwift is for people who have been using it since beta, not that much has changed. They need to constantly add more content or they will slowly bleed out. At this point there are no more challenges to unlock, no new stuff to unlock, and the map content gets released at a snails pace. The graphics are still light years behind and for many it still crashes on a much to frequent basis. Zwift has a lot of work to do.
I welcome new road choices. The recent additions of the Volcano, the Mayan expansion and Alpe Du Zwift in Watopia and the Surrey hills in "London", are certainly worthwhile improvements. Variety is the spice of life.
But, I don't think challenges or unlocking stuff are important to the experience of using Zwift. Similarly, while the graphics may not be spectacular, they do allow people use pretty much any machine to run them. And they're good enough, IMO, not to prevent you "believing" what you see.

I would like to see some developments in the ability to control your own experience:
  • I'd like access to a robot pacer or similar visual device to allow you ignore power figures and concentrate on chasing a graphic representation of your target while doing workouts.
  • Limit the riders you can see to those you want to ride with, to facilitate informal group rides or those who just want a quieter map.
  • Create your own private group rides or group workouts so we can arrange rides among friends
  • Provide the ability to review ride data beyond the incredibly basic "Ride Report" splash screen at the end of the ride.

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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
Ron_Burgundy wrote:
tri4balance wrote:
I have used both TR and Zwift - I find Zwift way more interesting that TR. I like to jump on find a race and jump into the fray. Its hard as crap and that is what I like - it pulls me into a tougher workout than I intended. I have chatted with a ton of friends and most are becoming Zwift zealots. TR is still very cool - I used to use it with the sufferfest videos which I also loved. Cheers Michael


My concern for Zwift is for people who have been using it since beta, not that much has changed. They need to constantly add more content or they will slowly bleed out. At this point there are no more challenges to unlock, no new stuff to unlock, and the map content gets released at a snails pace. The graphics are still light years behind and for many it still crashes on a much to frequent basis. Zwift has a lot of work to do.
I welcome new road choices. The recent additions of the Volcano, the Mayan expansion and Alpe Du Zwift in Watopia and the Surrey hills in "London", are certainly worthwhile improvements. Variety is the spice of life.
But, I don't think challenges or unlocking stuff are important to the experience of using Zwift. Similarly, while the graphics may not be spectacular, they do allow people use pretty much any machine to run them. And they're good enough, IMO, not to prevent you "believing" what you see.

I would like to see some developments in the ability to control your own experience:
  • I'd like access to a robot pacer or similar visual device to allow you ignore power figures and concentrate on chasing a graphic representation of your target while doing workouts.
  • Limit the riders you can see to those you want to ride with, to facilitate informal group rides or those who just want a quieter map.
  • Create your own private group rides or group workouts so we can arrange rides among friends
  • Provide the ability to review ride data beyond the incredibly basic "Ride Report" splash screen at the end of the ride.

These are all fantastic ideas!! Especially a ghost rider that you need to chase down for a given workout, I’d love that!
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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I started out in beta and am still a heavy user. This is primarily because I race on Zwift. Sure, I haven't gotten a new level in two years or a substantially new bike/kit/wheels, so there aren't really novel challenges on that part of the "game". However, racing continues to provide a novel challenge because there are plenty of strong/faster/better racers. As the user base grows, there are more available races with more talent, which is what keeps it interesting for me.

An interesting flip side for me is that I find it easier to do recovery rides on Zwift as well. The area I live is all rolling hills, which makes it annoying to do a Z1 recovery ride outside, I usually find that I go too hard on outdoor recovery rides around here. On Zwift, I choose a flat course, put on some music or a show and tool around at 100w when I'm supposed to be recovering. Obviously you could do that on the trainer with any program (or no program at all), but I like that Zwift then records my ride for me with quasi-realistic mileage, etc.
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [furiousferret] [ In reply to ]
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furiousferret wrote:
I like Zwift personally but I think Trainerroad is good as well. I've went away from Trainerroad because I simply do too many outdoor group rides or races to be consistent with the plans. If you're locked in a basement where its snowed in that may be great but SoCal we ride outdoors year round so any plan has to adjust for the outdoors.


What lures me to Zwift is the racing. I can go balls out for an hour at near FTP with very few surges or stops. The only other place around here I can do that is Onyx Summit or Glendora Mountain Road which are unrideable half the year.

Then again, maybe I'll do Trainerroad this winter. After descending and bouncing over a beer bottle at 35 mph in pitch black my opinion of night riding has changed. That being said, I'll still be outside on the weekends.


Hey Furiousferret!


You mentioned that an ideal training software for you has to take into account your outdoor rides. I just thought I'd chime in and let you know that we (TrainerRoad) have a new feature-set in Beta called Performance Analytics. This will allow you to import your outdoor workouts automatically from Strava and Garmin Connect. Whenever you complete a ride outdoors, you can then assign that ride to your plan in place of a prescribed ride that it most closely resembles. This update comes with other benefits such as an all-encompassing TSS chart, a personal records chart, and some increased functionality to create intervals and analyze your data.


I've gone ahead and enabled your TR account with Beta access already. If you'd like to check it out the new features, all you need to do is renew your subscription :)



If you have any other question, feel free to DM me directly


Happy training!

Get Faster with TrainerRoad
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [dunno] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
[quoteI would like to see some developments in the ability to control your own experience:
  • I'd like access to a robot pacer or similar visual device to allow you ignore power figures and concentrate on chasing a graphic representation of your target while doing workouts.
  • Limit the riders you can see to those you want to ride with, to facilitate informal group rides or those who just want a quieter map.
  • Create your own private group rides or group workouts so we can arrange rides among friends
  • Provide the ability to review ride data beyond the incredibly basic "Ride Report" splash screen at the end of the ride.
[/quote]

These are all fantastic ideas!! Especially a ghost rider that you need to chase down for a given workout, I’d love that![/quote]
+1
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ai_1 wrote:
Ron_Burgundy wrote:
tri4balance wrote:
I have used both TR and Zwift - I find Zwift way more interesting that TR. I like to jump on find a race and jump into the fray. Its hard as crap and that is what I like - it pulls me into a tougher workout than I intended. I have chatted with a ton of friends and most are becoming Zwift zealots. TR is still very cool - I used to use it with the sufferfest videos which I also loved. Cheers Michael


My concern for Zwift is for people who have been using it since beta, not that much has changed. They need to constantly add more content or they will slowly bleed out. At this point there are no more challenges to unlock, no new stuff to unlock, and the map content gets released at a snails pace. The graphics are still light years behind and for many it still crashes on a much to frequent basis. Zwift has a lot of work to do.

I welcome new road choices. The recent additions of the Volcano, the Mayan expansion and Alpe Du Zwift in Watopia and the Surrey hills in "London", are certainly worthwhile improvements. Variety is the spice of life.
But, I don't think challenges or unlocking stuff are important to the experience of using Zwift. Similarly, while the graphics may not be spectacular, they do allow people use pretty much any machine to run them. And they're good enough, IMO, not to prevent you "believing" what you see.

I would like to see some developments in the ability to control your own experience:
  • I'd like access to a robot pacer or similar visual device to allow you ignore power figures and concentrate on chasing a graphic representation of your target while doing workouts.
  • Limit the riders you can see to those you want to ride with, to facilitate informal group rides or those who just want a quieter map.
  • Create your own private group rides or group workouts so we can arrange rides among friends
  • Provide the ability to review ride data beyond the incredibly basic "Ride Report" splash screen at the end of the ride.

In large part i come at this from the video game perspective. Even the most successful games run by the largest development studios struggle to keep play count high year after year without significant innovation. The gaming industry used to be on a 1 or 2 year game cycle, then you move on to a new game. Now they are starting to use a 3-4 year cycle. To make this work and keep the player count high they have to regularly release new content or the count drops. It is quite interesting to see the charts and the effect of new content. Furthermore, the implementation of regular challenges, unlocks, and competitive "seasons" help maintain interest.

Zwift is unique in that you have the virtual reality component, social aspect, competitive race simulation, and workout mode with some training plans. Zwift is able to generally stay in the game for a longer time without significant innovation because they have a wide range of enticing reasons to "play". They also benefit from no real challenger at the moment and i am not sure if they are really competing with TrainerRoad in a pure sense, they are slightly different animals.

For Zwift to really thrive and sustain the inevitable challengers in the upcoming years i think they need to focus on a few key aspects. (1) more customization (you can even sell it), (2) better graphic rendering, (3) higher frequency of new content, (4) larger workout library/group workout, and (5) focus on the social aspect. I in no way am trying to put down Zwift, i simply think they have a lot of low hanging fruit to grab and if they don't, somebody else will.

As far as TrainerRoad i also think they will have to make some changes to be seriously competitive in the future. (1) they need to allow for more customization in their training plans, similar to Todays Plan. (2) Better graphical interface, possibly customization with colors etc. (3) wider range of training plans, in particular some higher volume plans that better incorporate and or adapt to outdoor rides as well.

Both programs have a lot of features to offer and i currently pay for both services. I like TrainerRoad and do their workouts three days a week year round. Zwift is more seasonal with the occasional races thrown in. If you want to become a faster cyclist and have limited time TrainerRoad is the best program on the market today.
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [ In reply to ]
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From a coaching perspective and from talking with my athletes about both platforms

85% of my athletes are on either TR or Zwift, about 1/3 are on both. It used to be about 60% were on both. They have defected from TR to Zwift.

Personally I'm on TR for now. I keep saying I'm going try Zwift and several of my athletes have asked to have a Zwift group ride butwe're scattered across 17 times zones and I'm not riding at 0300, what are you going to do...shrugs shoulders

The biggest problems with TR are
1. they try to cram too much work into each workout. The warm ups and cool downs are almost universally too short The cool downs are 3-5 min range on the majority of workouts.

Before you argue I get you're a time crunched athlete, most of my athletes are as well. In that case it may be even more important to warm up cool down more instead of cramming more intervals into a short block.

2. Some of the workouts are poorly designed. On the other hand it seems several of those have disappeared recently. Maybe they were Sufferfest workouts bc some of those were just idiotic.

I think both have their place. TR probably is more it's time to do work oriented while Zwift is probably more oriented to JRA although you can also do your intervals on there.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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nobody using perfpro? :(

I like TR and Zwift. I think they're both great. I just don't like spending money. and considering my training time indoors typically maxes out at 3 hours a week and is some form of interval workout perfpro works great. But I am attracted to the idea of doing hill repeats in Zwift.
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]
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Bryce Lewis TR wrote:
furiousferret wrote:
I like Zwift personally but I think Trainerroad is good as well. I've went away from Trainerroad because I simply do too many outdoor group rides or races to be consistent with the plans. If you're locked in a basement where its snowed in that may be great but SoCal we ride outdoors year round so any plan has to adjust for the outdoors.


What lures me to Zwift is the racing. I can go balls out for an hour at near FTP with very few surges or stops. The only other place around here I can do that is Onyx Summit or Glendora Mountain Road which are unrideable half the year.

Then again, maybe I'll do Trainerroad this winter. After descending and bouncing over a beer bottle at 35 mph in pitch black my opinion of night riding has changed. That being said, I'll still be outside on the weekends.


Hey Furiousferret!


You mentioned that an ideal training software for you has to take into account your outdoor rides. I just thought I'd chime in and let you know that we (TrainerRoad) have a new feature-set in Beta called Performance Analytics. This will allow you to import your outdoor workouts automatically from Strava and Garmin Connect. Whenever you complete a ride outdoors, you can then assign that ride to your plan in place of a prescribed ride that it most closely resembles. This update comes with other benefits such as an all-encompassing TSS chart, a personal records chart, and some increased functionality to create intervals and analyze your data.


I've gone ahead and enabled your TR account with Beta access already. If you'd like to check it out the new features, all you need to do is renew your subscription :)



If you have any other question, feel free to DM me directly


Happy training!

That's awesome! I've for sure check this out at some point this year.
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [furiousferret] [ In reply to ]
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The thing that I would like to see improved in Zwift is a closer time correlation between the power input and what's going on onscreen.

At the moment there seems to be a 3 or 4 second delay before drafting benefit kicks in, or drops out. It means it's sometimes easy to fall off the back of a fast peloton if you are effectively 3 seconds late at hitting the power, and it also means that you can be less smooth with your pedaling power as you're trying to keep your place in the pack but oscillating ahead and back.

I'd also love it more use was made of the ability to follow other riders and if you could liaise with them to organise group rides or turn up for the same races.

As for TR - it's great. Can i get on the Beta test too?
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Re: Zwift versus Trainerroad [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:

Before you argue I get you're a time crunched athlete, most of my athletes are as well. In that case it may be even more important to warm up cool down more instead of cramming more intervals into a short block.

Can you say more about that? I have been trying Zwift and TR recently and had trouble adjusting to the high % of ride time at intensity in some of the workouts (it seems like they might be written to hit high on the IF/TSS?).

If I was to write my own workout, I'd probably do more steady Z2 and less time doing intervals, but feel better during the intervals - so how do I balance this?

Thanks!
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