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Re: Flora [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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History says the heiress will begin to appear by 2020. On the women’s side there have been multiple dominating performers but they have never had staying power like AB or Gomez. I actually think it will be really hard for Duffy to win Tokyo gold because that’s too much time dominating the way she has. The pressure will be high on her and someone else only needs one perfect day.
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Re: Flora [Dumples] [ In reply to ]
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If Ashleigh Gentle can lift her swim game a bit so that she's in the first chase pack, things will get interesting. If you have Stimpson, Vickie Holland, Jo Brown and Gentle in the first chase (Gentle sometimes finishes in the first chase, but usually starts with a deficit...), you've got some serious fire power to limit the damage, and have some people with the run pedigree to push Flora... But the Bermuda course was designed by Flora for Flora, the only way she wasn't going to dominate that race was if she crashed... 10x up that hill was rife for breaking up packs...

But it's interesting how her racing has changed the dynamics... the run studs are trying to up their swim game to try and not let her go... and the swim studs are trying to up their bike/run game, so that they can hang on to a top 5 after riding her coattails in a break (Jess Learmonth and Sophie Coldwell are good examples, we're seeing less these days of Lucy Hall, because she's struggling to be able to back her swim with a strong T1 and make the lead bike pack... and now with Jodie/Vickie back, it's much harder to get on WTS start lists...)
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Re: Flora [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Trauma wrote:
But the Bermuda course was designed by Flora for Flora, the only way she wasn't going to dominate that race was if she crashed... 10x up that hill was rife for breaking up packs...

I don't know that it was. The reality of the space and terrain available here in Bda is that the roads around the City of Hamilton are really the only ones on which you could hold an event such as this. As it was, the island was pretty disrupted due to the road closures for the race basically dividing the island in two, with travel between the two halves beset by traffic jams. There's nowhere else on the island where you could close the roads for a large loop that would allow for a decent course and provide areas for the transition and for large numbers of spectators. We've had many, many triathlons and bike races held on these city streets over the years and Corkscrew Hill has been used quite a few times for triathlons both large and small in scope. The organizers went with the course because it is a tried and tested one here that minimized the disruption to the residents of the island. It really was that simple. Other than Corkscrew, I don't think the course was at all that challenging to be honest.
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Re: Flora [Bdaghisallo] [ In reply to ]
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Many years ago, there was an ITU event in Bermuda in Southampton, the bike course was multiple laps going up lighthouse hill. That was a significantly tougher course than the Hamilton one, in my view.

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Re: Flora [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Jackets wrote:
Rocky M wrote:
The way Gwen is running I doubt Flora could hold her off. Flora is only dominating because Gwen’s focus on being a pure runner. It’d be close but Flora would have her share of 2nds.


I'm not so sure about that, it was prety close towards the end of that last year they both raced (remember Duffy beat her in the grand final)

Duffy's swim and run has gone up another level since then, not to say that Gwens swim and bike wouldn't have gone up another level either but we'll never know now I suppose.

I keep waiting to see how a fit Spirig, changes the dynamics with someone like Stimpson maybe enough firepower there on the bike so that Flora doesn't come out T2 with over a minute lead.

You're referencing LAST year. The rate of time lopped off is much greater than Flora's in the run, so should Gwen merely maintained the swim/bike, there's the difference. Aside from that, in the Grand Final if I recall, even if Gwen won she wouldn't have enough points for the series win. So likely ran through the motions than redlining it--like a changing of the guard while she was already heading towards marathoning. I did notice Flora seems much more muscular & leaner in a very short time, so she may have really focused on making sure nobody but her is going to win anything. Diet & consistency can do a lot (not that she needed much more being top series dawg already from last year). Good for Flora! She's done some cool things on Twitter that she posted for some kids, I'm totally on board with those kind of gestures.

Guess we'll never really know as Gwen's moved on to other things out of triathlon & life.
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Re: Flora [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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I think Ashleigh Gentle is the only lady in the field that can beat Flora in the run. She's just not the whole package yet.
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Re: Flora [Bdaghisallo] [ In reply to ]
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Bdaghisallo wrote:
Trauma wrote:
But the Bermuda course was designed by Flora for Flora, the only way she wasn't going to dominate that race was if she crashed... 10x up that hill was rife for breaking up packs...


Actually, that's not true. I was at the Elite swim familiarization Thursday and was chatting with one of the guys responsible for setting the course. I explicitly asked him if Flora was involved in the design of the bike course. According to him, Flora was not involved in the design. He said, to paraphrase, they designed the course for "home field advantage". I asked if the course was designed with Flora's strengths in mind and he said "yes".

Bdaghisallo wrote:
I don't know that it was. The reality of the space and terrain available here in Bda is that the roads around the City of Hamilton are really the only ones on which you could hold an event such as this. As it was, the island was pretty disrupted due to the road closures for the race basically dividing the island in two, with travel between the two halves beset by traffic jams. There's nowhere else on the island where you could close the roads for a large loop that would allow for a decent course and provide areas for the transition and for large numbers of spectators. We've had many, many triathlons and bike races held on these city streets over the years and Corkscrew Hill has been used quite a few times for triathlons both large and small in scope. The organizers went with the course because it is a tried and tested one here that minimized the disruption to the residents of the island. It really was that simple. Other than Corkscrew, I don't think the course was at all that challenging to be honest.

Agreed. I only did the climb four times and it was not that bad (and I'm a MOP cyclist). Now, maybe after the tenth climb I would have a different opinion. Other than Corkscrew, the Elite course was flat. The descent off of Corkscrew and back into town could be screaming fast.

For AGers, the challenge of Corkscrew was that it was a blind climb. We came flying down Trimingham in a big gear, went wrong-way-around (or right-way-around depending on your country of origin) the rotary and immediately took a right onto Corkscrew. If you didn't know the right turn was Corkscrew and weren't able to downshift quickly, you could be in deep do-do. I saw two dropped chains on the first lap. I suspect everyone learned their lesson for the subsequent laps.
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Re: Flora [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed, I think gentle is the top runner right now. But I think that while Duffy’s run is significantly better than it was in 2016 there are still maybe 10 ladies who on a given day can outrun her. She is obviously the class of the field on the bike but by Tokyo the other top runners only need to be within 10-20% of her on the bike and then they are in the race. Alternatively Duffy needs figure out how she can make the other ladies work as hard as her so they all start the run more tired than her. That is when she gets a real run advantage.
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Re: Flora [Bdaghisallo] [ In reply to ]
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Bdaghisallo wrote:
Other than Corkscrew, I don't think the course was at all that challenging to be honest.

i agree. but that's a pretty big caveat. i believe only 1 man rode better than 1:03, and 1 woman better than 1:07. so, was the course long? this is the only time i can remember when both the male and female winners were off on solo bike escapes for most of the ride.

i think that argues for a course that's much harder than you think. no, that hill isn't that hard. 10x up that hill is hard, bearing in mind that you hit that hill from almost a dead stop, on account of the u turn right before you get to it.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Flora [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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This wasn't the hardest course that the ITU has used in Bermuda, like I said, the Southampton course from the early 2000's was harder, and they could have put in an even harder course in Hamilton had they wanted to, but to say it's "not that bad" is a disservice. On the pro course, Corkscrew is the real significant feature, but at the same time none of the rest of the course is truly flat. It's all false flats, up then down then up then down, with a few other rises that are more than a false flat, but not really hills either. But the thing about those is that they create tempo changes, which take some of the sting out of your legs.

I've ridden enough crits and tri's in Hamilton to know what it feels like (as has Flora) so she would've had the advantage of knowing where to attack with a chance that it'll stick.

The course was certainly designed with Flora in mind, hell, I'm sure the whole Bermuda stop of the circuit wouldn't have happened were it not for Flora, but they could have put the course virtually anywhere on the island and it would be "designed with Flora in mind". Virtually every cycling race we have (or at least had, back when I was racing there) was similar terrain, perhaps with less steep climbs than Corkscrew, but we tended to seek out courses that had hills. I can't recall any really flat courses that we used.

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Re: Flora [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Virtually every cycling race we have (or at least had, back when I was racing there) was similar terrain, perhaps with less steep climbs than Corkscrew, but we tended to seek out courses that had hills. I can't recall any really flat courses that we used.


You'd have to go back and forth between the roundabouts on Kindley Field Road to get a flat course in Bda. Everything else is going to have some elevation change, even if some of it is the false flat variety.
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Re: Flora [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Bdaghisallo wrote:
Other than Corkscrew, I don't think the course was at all that challenging to be honest.


i agree. but that's a pretty big caveat. i believe only 1 man rode better than 1:03, and 1 woman better than 1:07. so, was the course long? this is the only time i can remember when both the male and female winners were off on solo bike escapes for most of the ride.

i think that argues for a course that's much harder than you think. no, that hill isn't that hard. 10x up that hill is hard, bearing in mind that you hit that hill from almost a dead stop, on account of the u turn right before you get to it.

In the lead up and during the event I kept hearing how hard the course was, and sure 10x up Corkscrew would hurt the legs after a while but I kept thinking that these are professional athletes and they should be able to handle it. Sure the rest of the course had some gentle downhills and false flats and one 90 deg turn they would have had to slow down a good bit for, but it didn't strike me as overly technical either, which was another characterization I was hearing. I am sure a lot of the talk was the local contingent talking it up in the lead up to the race, though.
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Re: Flora [Bdaghisallo] [ In reply to ]
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The proof was in the pudding, didn't Flora drop whoever she was with up that corkscrew hill?

Plus I'm sure one of those Norwiegens also broke up up the hill.
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Re: Flora [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Bdaghisallo wrote:
Other than Corkscrew, I don't think the course was at all that challenging to be honest.


i agree. but that's a pretty big caveat. i believe only 1 man rode better than 1:03, and 1 woman better than 1:07. so, was the course long? this is the only time i can remember when both the male and female winners were off on solo bike escapes for most of the ride.

i think that argues for a course that's much harder than you think. no, that hill isn't that hard. 10x up that hill is hard, bearing in mind that you hit that hill from almost a dead stop, on account of the u turn right before you get to it.

and add to the hill a good stiff head wind that hit them on a section that would have been quite fast without it made for slow times.

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Flora [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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drafting on the bike, and save your legs for the run! you did watch the Rio Olympic race right? ;-)

'to give anything less than the best is to sacrifice the gift'...Pre
Last edited by: undies: May 1, 18 4:44
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