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Air Marshal Security Theater
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“Based on how the program is run now, most of what the air marshals do is just security theater — it serves absolutely no purpose other than showing that they are doing something,” said Robert MacLean, an air marshal who was fired by T.S.A. in 2006 after disclosing to an MSNBC reporter that the agency was planning to reduce the number of air marshals on overnight flights. He was rehired after a nearly 10-year battle that reached the Supreme Court.

Who would have guessed?

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Air Marshal Security Theater [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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klehner wrote:
Quote:
“Based on how the program is run now, most of what the air marshals do is just security theater — it serves absolutely no purpose other than showing that they are doing something,” said Robert MacLean, an air marshal who was fired by T.S.A. in 2006 after disclosing to an MSNBC reporter that the agency was planning to reduce the number of air marshals on overnight flights. He was rehired after a nearly 10-year battle that reached the Supreme Court.

Who would have guessed?

Been saying this for years. A lot of aviation security is mostly feel-good appearance-type stuff. There are some really effective measures, but air marshals? Not that jazzed about their efficacy.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Air Marshal Security Theater [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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But at the same time, given a choice of having an Air Marshal on a flight or not, I would want one every time.

That might just make me a sucker, I guess.
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Re: Air Marshal Security Theater [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
klehner wrote:
Quote:
“Based on how the program is run now, most of what the air marshals do is just security theater — it serves absolutely no purpose other than showing that they are doing something,” said Robert MacLean, an air marshal who was fired by T.S.A. in 2006 after disclosing to an MSNBC reporter that the agency was planning to reduce the number of air marshals on overnight flights. He was rehired after a nearly 10-year battle that reached the Supreme Court.


Who would have guessed?


Been saying this for years. A lot of aviation security is mostly feel-good appearance-type stuff. There are some really effective measures, but air marshals? Not that jazzed about their efficacy.

Isn't that the case with most security? Every office building has key card access and security guards. It doesn't actually do anything. My wife's building you can get in the building but have to scan in the elevator to get to a floor. But the elevators are usually full so anyone can piggyback on to the floor.

The only thing the security guards in our building would be good for is a human shield. I could pick the one old guy up and throw him at the attackers.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Air Marshal Security Theater [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Prison shows us even full body cavity searches does not prevent contraband from entering the facility.

It's only a matter of time before we have a butt bomber. Then what?
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Re: Air Marshal Security Theater [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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FishyJoe wrote:
Prison shows us even full body cavity searches does not prevent contraband from entering the facility.

It's only a matter of time before we have a butt bomber. Then what?

I thought they tried that to kill a member of the Saudi royal family some time ago. As I recall, it didn't do anything but make a big mess of the terrorist. Water sacks made of meat tend to contain explosions reasonably well.
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Re: Air Marshal Security Theater [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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FishyJoe wrote:
It's only a matter of time before we have a butt bomber.

Confession: I once had a full Taco Bell meal before a flight to Hong Kong and I fit that description. I'm so sorry, rows 22 through 24.

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
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Re: Air Marshal Security Theater [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
klehner wrote:
Quote:
“Based on how the program is run now, most of what the air marshals do is just security theater — it serves absolutely no purpose other than showing that they are doing something,” said Robert MacLean, an air marshal who was fired by T.S.A. in 2006 after disclosing to an MSNBC reporter that the agency was planning to reduce the number of air marshals on overnight flights. He was rehired after a nearly 10-year battle that reached the Supreme Court.


Who would have guessed?


Been saying this for years. A lot of aviation security is mostly feel-good appearance-type stuff. There are some really effective measures, but air marshals? Not that jazzed about their efficacy.


Isn't that the case with most security? Every office building has key card access and security guards. It doesn't actually do anything. My wife's building you can get in the building but have to scan in the elevator to get to a floor. But the elevators are usually full so anyone can piggyback on to the floor.

The only thing the security guards in our building would be good for is a human shield. I could pick the one old guy up and throw him at the attackers.

In the US, the bad guys don't want to hijack the plane anymore (the reinforced and locked flight deck door, plus the aggressiveness of passengers since 9/11 have put a stop to that). What they want to do is blow up a plane -- preferably one full of passengers and cargo -- over a large American city. If they can do that with suicide bombers and laptop or other electronic devices containing a plastic or similar explosive, all well and good. But they'll take what they can get, and if they can get IEDs or the like into a plane's cargo compartments, that's great.

In Europe, the major threat to transportation is actually coming from their interlinked rail system. Lots of intelligence says that's what they'd like to hit, especially because that would be easier to carry off than attempting to sneak a bomb onboard a commercial airliner at Heathrow or Amsterdam's Schipol airports, even with airport insider assistance. Those very effective security measures I mentioned come into play in this regard.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Air Marshal Security Theater [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]
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Guffaw wrote:
FishyJoe wrote:
It's only a matter of time before we have a butt bomber.


Confession: I once had a full Taco Bell meal before a flight to Hong Kong and I fit that description. I'm so sorry, rows 22 through 24.

That's funny shit. Well, not for rows 22-24 of course.
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Re: Air Marshal Security Theater [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]
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Guffaw wrote:
FishyJoe wrote:
It's only a matter of time before we have a butt bomber.


Confession: I once had a full Taco Bell meal before a flight to Hong Kong and I fit that description. I'm so sorry, rows 22 through 24.

Ah yes. The Bean Burrito Bomb.

I made some venison jerky one time. It tasted really good, but unfortunately it wasn't quite done in the middle of the thicker pieces. I ate some in my car while driving to a business meeting three hours away. I barely made it to my hotel before the bacteria had its way with my colon.
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Re: Air Marshal Security Theater [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
j p o wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
klehner wrote:
Quote:
“Based on how the program is run now, most of what the air marshals do is just security theater — it serves absolutely no purpose other than showing that they are doing something,” said Robert MacLean, an air marshal who was fired by T.S.A. in 2006 after disclosing to an MSNBC reporter that the agency was planning to reduce the number of air marshals on overnight flights. He was rehired after a nearly 10-year battle that reached the Supreme Court.


Who would have guessed?


Been saying this for years. A lot of aviation security is mostly feel-good appearance-type stuff. There are some really effective measures, but air marshals? Not that jazzed about their efficacy.


Isn't that the case with most security? Every office building has key card access and security guards. It doesn't actually do anything. My wife's building you can get in the building but have to scan in the elevator to get to a floor. But the elevators are usually full so anyone can piggyback on to the floor.

The only thing the security guards in our building would be good for is a human shield. I could pick the one old guy up and throw him at the attackers.


In the US, the bad guys don't want to hijack the plane anymore (the reinforced and locked flight deck door, plus the aggressiveness of passengers since 9/11 have put a stop to that). What they want to do is blow up a plane -- preferably one full of passengers and cargo -- over a large American city. If they can do that with suicide bombers and laptop or other electronic devices containing a plastic or similar explosive, all well and good. But they'll take what they can get, and if they can get IEDs or the like into a plane's cargo compartments, that's great.

In Europe, the major threat to transportation is actually coming from their interlinked rail system. Lots of intelligence says that's what they'd like to hit, especially because that would be easier to carry off than attempting to sneak a bomb onboard a commercial airliner at Heathrow or Amsterdam's Schipol airports, even with airport insider assistance. Those very effective security measures I mentioned come into play in this regard.

I was going to mention that the biggest change to in air security is that people now react when there is a hijacking. Used to be, you went along, got an unplanned trip to Cuba, then went home. Now you know that the goal isn't to go somewhere, it is to crash it.

There are so many soft targets around. I don't really understand the fetish terrorists have with planes.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Air Marshal Security Theater [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
j p o wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
klehner wrote:
Quote:
“Based on how the program is run now, most of what the air marshals do is just security theater — it serves absolutely no purpose other than showing that they are doing something,” said Robert MacLean, an air marshal who was fired by T.S.A. in 2006 after disclosing to an MSNBC reporter that the agency was planning to reduce the number of air marshals on overnight flights. He was rehired after a nearly 10-year battle that reached the Supreme Court.


Who would have guessed?


Been saying this for years. A lot of aviation security is mostly feel-good appearance-type stuff. There are some really effective measures, but air marshals? Not that jazzed about their efficacy.


Isn't that the case with most security? Every office building has key card access and security guards. It doesn't actually do anything. My wife's building you can get in the building but have to scan in the elevator to get to a floor. But the elevators are usually full so anyone can piggyback on to the floor.

The only thing the security guards in our building would be good for is a human shield. I could pick the one old guy up and throw him at the attackers.


In the US, the bad guys don't want to hijack the plane anymore (the reinforced and locked flight deck door, plus the aggressiveness of passengers since 9/11 have put a stop to that). What they want to do is blow up a plane -- preferably one full of passengers and cargo -- over a large American city. If they can do that with suicide bombers and laptop or other electronic devices containing a plastic or similar explosive, all well and good. But they'll take what they can get, and if they can get IEDs or the like into a plane's cargo compartments, that's great.

In Europe, the major threat to transportation is actually coming from their interlinked rail system. Lots of intelligence says that's what they'd like to hit, especially because that would be easier to carry off than attempting to sneak a bomb onboard a commercial airliner at Heathrow or Amsterdam's Schipol airports, even with airport insider assistance. Those very effective security measures I mentioned come into play in this regard.

I was going to mention that the biggest change to in air security is that people now react when there is a hijacking. Used to be, you went along, got an unplanned trip to Cuba, then went home. Now you know that the goal isn't to go somewhere, it is to crash it.

There are so many soft targets around. I don't really understand the fetish terrorists have with planes.

Commercial air transportation is the crown Jewel of the US transportation system, and if they can crash a plane and undermine confidence in that system they believe they can undermine confidence in the US as a whole.. They believed that during 9/11 (though they we're also interested in tearing down the US and even global financial system by the attack on the World Trade Center) and they haven't changed their beliefs since.

Blowing a plane out of the sky, with hundreds of men women and children on it, they believe will send shock waves throughout US air transportation. Plus, it would send a message to the rest of the world that they can reach out and do it.

Personally, I believe they underestimate the resiliency of Western democracies and their populations when it comes to these sorts of terrorist attacks, but try convincing them of that.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Air Marshal Security Theater [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
j p o wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
j p o wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
klehner wrote:
Quote:
“Based on how the program is run now, most of what the air marshals do is just security theater — it serves absolutely no purpose other than showing that they are doing something,” said Robert MacLean, an air marshal who was fired by T.S.A. in 2006 after disclosing to an MSNBC reporter that the agency was planning to reduce the number of air marshals on overnight flights. He was rehired after a nearly 10-year battle that reached the Supreme Court.


Who would have guessed?


Been saying this for years. A lot of aviation security is mostly feel-good appearance-type stuff. There are some really effective measures, but air marshals? Not that jazzed about their efficacy.


Isn't that the case with most security? Every office building has key card access and security guards. It doesn't actually do anything. My wife's building you can get in the building but have to scan in the elevator to get to a floor. But the elevators are usually full so anyone can piggyback on to the floor.

The only thing the security guards in our building would be good for is a human shield. I could pick the one old guy up and throw him at the attackers.


In the US, the bad guys don't want to hijack the plane anymore (the reinforced and locked flight deck door, plus the aggressiveness of passengers since 9/11 have put a stop to that). What they want to do is blow up a plane -- preferably one full of passengers and cargo -- over a large American city. If they can do that with suicide bombers and laptop or other electronic devices containing a plastic or similar explosive, all well and good. But they'll take what they can get, and if they can get IEDs or the like into a plane's cargo compartments, that's great.

In Europe, the major threat to transportation is actually coming from their interlinked rail system. Lots of intelligence says that's what they'd like to hit, especially because that would be easier to carry off than attempting to sneak a bomb onboard a commercial airliner at Heathrow or Amsterdam's Schipol airports, even with airport insider assistance. Those very effective security measures I mentioned come into play in this regard.


I was going to mention that the biggest change to in air security is that people now react when there is a hijacking. Used to be, you went along, got an unplanned trip to Cuba, then went home. Now you know that the goal isn't to go somewhere, it is to crash it.

There are so many soft targets around. I don't really understand the fetish terrorists have with planes.


Commercial air transportation is the crown Jewel of the US transportation system, and if they can crash a plane and undermine confidence in that system they believe they can undermine confidence in the US as a whole.. They believed that during 9/11 (though they we're also interested in tearing down the US and even global financial system by the attack on the World Trade Center) and they haven't changed their beliefs since.

Blowing a plane out of the sky, with hundreds of men women and children on it, they believe will send shock waves throughout US air transportation. Plus, it would send a message to the rest of the world that they can reach out and do it.

Personally, I believe they underestimate the resiliency of Western democracies and their populations when it comes to these sorts of terrorist attacks, but try convincing them of that.

To me that shows how little understanding of our society they have. We expect danger in that kind of situation. If you want to actually terrorize people they have to think there is no where that is safe. If you want to get people where it would really scare them blow up a high school football game in Texas.

And now I am going to stop sharing any thoughts on how to plan a terrorist incident for fear that Homeland Security will shut down ST as a haven for bad guys.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Air Marshal Security Theater [gotsand] [ In reply to ]
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gotsand wrote:
FishyJoe wrote:
Prison shows us even full body cavity searches does not prevent contraband from entering the facility.

It's only a matter of time before we have a butt bomber. Then what?


I thought they tried that to kill a member of the Saudi royal family some time ago. As I recall, it didn't do anything but make a big mess of the terrorist. Water sacks made of meat tend to contain explosions reasonably well.

Someone... told me that certain porn videos show a person can easily stuff large objects into a well trained individual, walk around and eject them on demand.
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Re: Air Marshal Security Theater [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
j p o wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
klehner wrote:
Quote:
“Based on how the program is run now, most of what the air marshals do is just security theater — it serves absolutely no purpose other than showing that they are doing something,” said Robert MacLean, an air marshal who was fired by T.S.A. in 2006 after disclosing to an MSNBC reporter that the agency was planning to reduce the number of air marshals on overnight flights. He was rehired after a nearly 10-year battle that reached the Supreme Court.


Who would have guessed?


Been saying this for years. A lot of aviation security is mostly feel-good appearance-type stuff. There are some really effective measures, but air marshals? Not that jazzed about their efficacy.


Isn't that the case with most security? Every office building has key card access and security guards. It doesn't actually do anything. My wife's building you can get in the building but have to scan in the elevator to get to a floor. But the elevators are usually full so anyone can piggyback on to the floor.

The only thing the security guards in our building would be good for is a human shield. I could pick the one old guy up and throw him at the attackers.


In the US, the bad guys don't want to hijack the plane anymore (the reinforced and locked flight deck door, plus the aggressiveness of passengers since 9/11 have put a stop to that). What they want to do is blow up a plane -- preferably one full of passengers and cargo -- over a large American city. If they can do that with suicide bombers and laptop or other electronic devices containing a plastic or similar explosive, all well and good. But they'll take what they can get, and if they can get IEDs or the like into a plane's cargo compartments, that's great.

In Europe, the major threat to transportation is actually coming from their interlinked rail system. Lots of intelligence says that's what they'd like to hit, especially because that would be easier to carry off than attempting to sneak a bomb onboard a commercial airliner at Heathrow or Amsterdam's Schipol airports, even with airport insider assistance. Those very effective security measures I mentioned come into play in this regard.


I was going to mention that the biggest change to in air security is that people now react when there is a hijacking. Used to be, you went along, got an unplanned trip to Cuba, then went home. Now you know that the goal isn't to go somewhere, it is to crash it.

There are so many soft targets around. I don't really understand the fetish terrorists have with planes.

Seems like tougher security screening will likely result in longer queue lines. I've seen TSA lines with hundreds of people packed like sardines in the airport. Those long lines seem like a perfect soft target. If they attack people waiting in lines, then what?
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