camera is probably a little too low (and it looks like it was shot through a potato or something) so hard to say definitively. i'd surmise your saddle is a bit high.

Camera isn't level either.

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My bad - just reuploaded and looks way better.

Re: Saddle Height. How much should I drop it? Should knee angle when leg is fully extended be consistent between road and TT bikes? My knee angle is ~135degrees on road bike and ~146degrees on TT.

Just looking at the bike alone its a very odd set-up which will lend to really poor handling and often indicates something else is going on. By ramming the saddle rail forward and throwing on a long stem you are moving your whole body forward of how the bike was designed to ridden and putting nearly all your weight over the front wheel. It is a position that might be necessary for someone with super short legs and a massive torso but would be unusual for an average proportioned rider.

It is hard to tell from the video but where is your knee relative to the pedals at 9/3? I suspect you are too far forward and need to go back but can't because your saddle is too high. Stated another way you have set your saddle too high and you have therefore had to move the saddle forward to reach the bottom of the pedal stroke. Moving your sadle down and back will also allow you to put a more reasonable sized stem on the bike and keep your weight over the back wheel.

It should be said that knee angles can be very personal based on physiology and I would start by matching your road position not just in terms of angle at the bottom of the pedal but knee position when the pedals are at 9 and 3. This will minimize the risk any changes cause injury niggles moving forward.

I do feel way too far forward over the front wheel since I slammed the stem down.

Knee is way forward on TT bike vs. Road Bike, pics comparing each are below.

So what do I do? Drop the saddle back and down until knee is over pedal? Assume I go back 1 inch, do I go from the 100cm stem on the bike to a 80cm? I think I have one of those..


Road Bike

TT bike

imo it looks like your hips are not rolled forward and you are pointing your toes a bit.

Pointing your toes can mean you need to lower the saddle.

When you roll your hips forward and sit on the forward area of your pelvis you will find your hips rise. When you do this you have to lower the seat a bit. You will also feel your torso extend and it won't feel so long. Sometimes rolling the hips forward can take some time getting used to.

I would look back at the knee angle once your toes are not pointed and you roll your hips. I don't know that you need to worry about your knee in relation to the pedal. It is okay to have more weight on the front end, this is what you want.

Any idea how much I should drop the seat by?

I know my hips don't roll forward perfectly. I have my seat angled down a bit and sit very forward on the nose.

Dropped saddle by ~2cm and pushed seat back by about ~1cm.


Hip angle remained consistent at ~100 degrees, maybe ~1 degree more closed.


6o'clock knee angle reduced to ~144 degrees (vs. 148 degrees) and 3o'clock knee angle remained ~115 degree. KOPS is almost identical as well. Picture attached

Revised video below.

What else could I do to get into a more aggressive position?

Consider getting a saddle that's actually designed for you to sit on the nose, that you have to angle that Arione down so much causes other problems - not the least of which is constantly having to push yourself backwards. I'm sure you can do 40k on the nose of an Arione, but why would you want to?

In the original video, I agree your seat was too high, but I do not agree you are necessarily too far forward. The saddle is definitely forward, but you really aren't excessively so. You do probably need more reach (and I am not concerned with weight over the front wheel).

2nd video seat height looks better, and it could maybe still come down more. As you lower the seat though, knee flexion at the top of the stroke may become problematic (crank length).

What you can do to become "more aggressive" is find a stem that drops you by the same amount you end up dropping the saddle, as your initial drop looked good. Now you look too high. While you are at it, make the stem a touch longer as well to give you more reach.

Also, I hate those 3T bars, both for their lack of adjustability and the shape of the extensions.

Dumb question - but what's wrong with Arione? It's the same saddle on my roadie too. I ride without chamois often and still find it comfortable.

Is there a "good" amount of drop I should be aiming for? The seat is down 2cm from the start and I will probably go another 1-2cm. That means handlebars need to drop another 2-3cm as well? My seat will be back ~2cm as well from the original position.

Does that mean I'm going from a 110 stem to something shorter at -10 or -15degrees?

I rode Ariones on road bikes for years, it's a fine road saddle. But you sit on a TT saddle completely differently than on a road saddle, at least if you're riding in a low, aggressive position (like you aim to). For the vast majority of people, the Arione has too narrow a nose, too little padding, and no center relief channel. There are various better options: An Arione Tri gives you a similar shape, but with a padded nose. A "snub nose" saddle like a Specialized Power, Pro Stealth, Cobb Tenace, or Prologo TGale would give you a similar feel, but with center relief, more padding, and you won't be jamming your junk up into your torso. Then there are noseless saddles like the Fizik Mystica if you want to try something completely different, but I'd suggest trying either a padded-nose "conventional" TT saddle to start, or one of the snub nose models I listed.

Dan has an article about these issues someplace (in the "Saddles" section under "Products"), but I think a host of new saddles have come out since it was written.

Also, given that your target is only 4 weeks away, only take my advice if you really want to, but try and get dialed on a new seat within the next two weeks if at all possible. Changing a seat is one of the hardest changes to make and adjust to. While I think the Arione is unnecessarily uncomfortable, and it's certainly angled too far down at the moment, if you can deal with it for the better part of an hour and it seems daunting to change then don't change. Hopefully I've at least planted a seed that leads to you having greater comfort in the future though. And, to your original question, a seat better suited to the purpose can certainly also help in holding an aggressive aero position.

Thanks for tips on saddle.

I dropped the seat another ~1.5cm and pushed it back 0.5cm ... lifted the saddle nose to level and it feels fine. I dont have any lateral rocking and don'l feel any issue with shape / level of padding yet. That is until I start to really roll my pelvis forward, maybe that's where a new saddle would help.

Power this AM was only ~5% off road bike levels, which feels alright given I haven't ridden TT bike in about a year. I grabbed an adjustable step to play with and then I'll probably grab something like a -17degree stem to drop the front end a bit more.

Will post another video when I get that for y'alls feedback.

Thanks for help thusfar.

Here’s updated video with a 110mm -17d stem. Back is getting flat! Thank you.

What else can I do to get into a more aggressive position?

Power seems to be close to road bike and I am comfortable.

Video