I also saw someone post on here maybe a few months ago that Hoka actually has a new shoe with a different name (obviously) that's basically the Clifton 3 with a new upper. I can't remember the name.. started with an A. I had found a review on the shoes and it was saying that they'd be available in Jan 2018. I also remember looking and the shoes weren't on the Hoka website (in February or March I think).

EDIT: found them. And it didn't start with an A at all. But it has TWO A in the name so I was basically right.

http://www.roadtrailrun.com/2018/02/hoka-one-one-napali-review-tuned-up.html

They recommended the Napali to me. I have not yet tried it out. Hoka actually shorted me on one of the pairs of Clifton 3 that I ordered, then they ran out, promised a refund and 50% off the Napali. Neither have materialized in almost a month. Ill try the new model if they give me the discount. Ill probably just have to charge-back, as I sat on hold for over an hour yesterday trying to talk to a CS rep, none ever answered.

The Napali seems to me to be a credible Clifton 3 replacement. I got a pair and so far so good. I'll be interested in hearing your experience if you try them.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Yikes looking forward to seeing Hoka disappear. Nike, Brooks, Adidas and even Skechers are making better shoes.

See my earlier comment about the Napali. It has the exact same sole as the Clifton 2 (which looks almost identical to the 3, maybe they are the same?), just with a different upper. It's a solid shoe if you like the earlier Cliftons.

Continued sales growth ≠ healthy brand that's sustainable. Maybe they are doing just fine and I'm a curmudgeon. But a lot of their decisions are also off putting current users. If their decisions are causing people to leave the brand, then 5 years of continued growth will be meaningless in the long run.

And I fully understand doing exclusives, or unique runs, etc.

But stuff they're doing is taking a line of shoes, and making the next iteration nothing like the previous. It's like taking a 2017 Civic Sedan, and then replacing it with a pick up truck for 2018, continuing to call it a civic, and then call what should have been a civic, the all new 2018 Honda Rushmore.

Maybe people new to Honda love the new "civic", but people looking for a civic are gonna go shop toyota when they try to get sold a pick up truck.

The Bondi is still a maximum cushioned shoe, with a broad base that promotes inherent platform stability. Shoe product line evolves quickly - it's more like comparing generations of something iterative. Take that Civic over 10 years. We have three generations of a Civic in that period of time. The car has grown larger, more mature, and more technologically advanced over that period. If you sit in both of them, they don't feel like they came from the same manufacturer.

The same holds true for this particular brand. It's just that change is accelerated in a business where models are expected to be replaced at best in a two year product cycle, but more frequently annually.

Shoes change. You find the things you like about a shoe, then apply it to models. Sometimes that's the same shoe over time. Sometimes it's something different within the product line. The question is whether or not they offer something that fits within those paradigms. I've migrated within the Hoka line from the Stinson Evo to the Bondi to the Conquest to the Clifton and Tracer. But, then again, I don't buy shoes only from a single manufacturer. Right now in the rotation includes some Nike Zoom Fly's, Saucony Triumph's and Freedom's, Adidas Boston's, those two Hoka's, and a New Balance 1080.

I would argue that a half decade of sustained growth in a marketplace that has been relatively stagnant, particularly over the last two years, is pretty healthy. And with the re-up and expansion of the Ironman partnership, likely to make further inroads in Europe.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Avoid MB. They are drop style and will lead to injury (did for me, majority Achilles tendon). Go with sketchers or Altra, zero drop style

i have run in bondis, claytons and cliftons...my go to nb shoe is the vazee pace...use it for marathons and half/full ims. good luck!

The Nike Epic React was pretty sweet, worry about the lack of coverage on the sole.

OP here. Tried about 10-12 shoes over the weekend and am currently test driving a NB 1260 and Mizuno Wave Horizon. The Mizuno is a bit 'deeper' than the NB which I like. The other surprise was that the new Clifton v4 actually seemed to work for me, unlike v2 which was a disaster (again for me). The clifton was definitely the most bondi-like, but didn't quite seem to hug my foot like these others.

I'm still going to try some of the Skechers that y'all recommended too, for my regular training runs.

I just want to say thanks for this recommendation. I ordered a pair of the Skechers GoRunRide 7and have about eight runs in them. This is the best shoe that I have worn in a long time. Super comfortable. Well cushioned. Upper is great. I ordered two more pairs today and plan on using them for the majority of my running.

I was a huge Hoka fan-boy for several years but the last several pairs I have purchased have not been comfortable at all. The original Bondi and Bondi B were great but the upper and toe box in the current line up of shoes is just not doing it for me. The Skechers product is comfortable right out of the box and really reminds me of the "ride" of the original Bondi. I hadn't been considering them at all.

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Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

Ordered mine as well, can’t wait for it to arrive. Goodbye Hoka, hello Skechers! Go run Ride 7. Found them for $80!

Never had a running shoe as comfortable as the Skechers 7.

Incredible shoe, never heard of them before.

But quiet difficult to order in Europe.

You might try the Hoka Cavu

For NB the Zante for your faster running and I really like the 880 which you could use for your day in day out training shoe

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I'm a big fan of the NB 1080v8 for a trainer. First non Asics shoe I've owned in over 30 years. Just the right amount of drop for me (8mm) and nice cushioning.

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Suffer Well.

Re: Skechers go-ride 7 - haven't run in them but seen 'em in my local store. I doubt they'd be a direct replacement for any 'traditional' Hoka, sure loads of cushion but also loads of twist - I mean, there's limited torsional stiffness in comparison, might suit some of course and closer to the Cavu / Clayton. Felt very light!
I'd say the closest Skechers is the Ultra Road which I have run in (both editions with 1st edition being a bit softer). Ultra Road feel much nicer than Clifton 4's and lighter.

How are you finding the Fly's Ryan?

I really, really wanted to not like this shoe - mostly because I've long not loved Nike's, but also because I felt like there was no way a shoe with this much hype could ever live up to expectations.

It's surprisingly stable for how narrow of a platform it is under the midfoot. They've done a good job cosseting the foot onto the platform from the heel to the midfoot and crating a bond there. The result is a shoe that rides relatively "flat", whereas usually something this narrow would lead somewhere towards a medial bias during stance.

I'm probably a bit out of shape for it at the present moment (we're relocating, have a 20 month old at home, I've been sick, and I'm allegedly training for IMLP which has gone about as well as you can imagine given the three excuses above), but honestly the only thing I would change about it at the moment is the top couple of eyelets on the lacing. I'm going to probably try these for Rev3 Quassy and see how it goes.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Thanks Ryan - all I hear is the problem users have at slower paces, would you consider it as an everyday trainer? Can't imagine they're as stiff as a Hoka though?

Y'know, I think the whole pace thing for the "regular" Fly is bullshit. If you've ever worn any full-length wave plate Mizuno or some of the earlier Brooks models I don't think it's radically different than that. Ride is cushioned enough, IMO.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter