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Betalain Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it?
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I was at a small race this weekend, and there was a company with a truck there advertising/selling a betalain supplement. Company- AltRed. I haven't heard anything about it. Anyone use it/something similar, or know anything about it? I have talked to a couple friends about it- one swears by it, the other thinks that it is complete garbage.

EDITED to correct beta alanine to betalain.
Last edited by: beachedbeluga: Apr 16, 18 14:35
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Re: Beta Alanine Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [beachedbeluga] [ In reply to ]
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So, yes and no.

There is little evidence supporting the use of beta alanine supplementation.

However, there is a fair bit supporting betalain (red beetroot) ;-) Altred is the former.
Andy Coggan has posted a lot on the matter if I recall.
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Re: Beta Alanine Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [beachedbeluga] [ In reply to ]
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Not beta alanine - betalain (extracted from beets). The claim is that it improves performance/recovery by acting as an anti-oxidant:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28121183

If you search the forum, you will find a couple of other threads about the product.
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Re: Beta Alanine Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
there is a fair bit supporting betalain (red beetroot)

Nitrate, yes. Betalain, not so much/at least not yet.
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Re: Beta Alanine Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Ah my bad. Thanks for the correction.
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Re: Beta Alanine Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [beachedbeluga] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Beta Alanine Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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I use it a lot to weight train, horrible side effect of you wanting to rip your face off as it makes your head itch.
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Re: Beta Alanine Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Jackets wrote:
I use it a lot to weight train, horrible side effect of you wanting to rip your face off as it makes your head itch.

It's like you, only covered in pissed off ants!

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Betalain Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [beachedbeluga] [ In reply to ]
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beachedbeluga wrote:
I was at a small race this weekend, and there was a company with a truck there advertising/selling a betalain supplement. Company- AltRed. I haven't heard anything about it. Anyone use it/something similar, or know anything about it? I have talked to a couple friends about it- one swears by it, the other thinks that it is complete garbage.

EDITED to correct beta alanine to betalain.

I can tell that your friend who thinks its complete garbage has never tried it! I thought it was bullshit too before I started using it before Boston marathon last year.

Since then, I've become the Digital Marketing Manager for AltRed and of the 3,000+ athletes we've served since July - we haven't had 1 person ask for the their money back because it didn't work.

I won't try and sell you on the product, but simply provide you with access to correct information about it.




Most companies out their who sell a beet product - base their benefits on the fact that their products contain "Nitrates". The assumption being the nitrates convert into nitric oxide in your blood stream to provide the performance benefits. However researchers can't specifically measure those nitric oxide levels in the blood due to the extremely quick half life (<1 sec).

Betalains (which is the only active ingredient in AltRed) is found in beets. It is a phytonutrient and pigment that gives beets their reddish color. When found in beets and other beet performance products - the Betalains are not bioavailable (means they can't be used by the body) - however when extracting the Betalains from sugars and nitrates, the Betalains become bioavailable and can be used in the body.

That is the biggest difference between AltRed and any other beet, beetroot or nitrate product on the market.



AltRed is based on our science directly studying the benefits of our product during exercise. We have gone to lengths to make sure our product is certified by INFORMED CHOICE and NSF FOR SPORT, two of the biggest leaders in the sports certification industry.

We have 2 double-blind crossover studies which have documented the performance and recovery benefits that AltRed provides during exercise. Find those here (sur.co/phytoscience)

Again, if anyone claims it's complete garbage - there's a strong chance they haven't given it a shot.

If you or your friend want to put it to the test - you can use SLOWTWITCH50 for 50% off your first bottle. If you don't get the results we promised - I'll personally give you your money back!

Thanks
Eric
eric@sur.co

Eric Engel | http://www.ironmandiary.com
15% off INFINIT Nutrition w/ code: EENGEL-INFINIT
15% off AltRed w/ code: EENGEL-ALTRED
20% off AMP Human http://amphumanperformanc.refr.cc/ericengel
AP Racing "The Crew" | INFINIT Nutrition | AltRed | AMP Human
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Re: Betalain Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [erengel23] [ In reply to ]
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Would you please stop repeating your half-truths (at best) with respect to dietary nitrate? All it does is undermine any credibility you might have.
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Re: Betalain Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
Would you please stop repeating your half-truths (at best) with respect to dietary nitrate? All it does is undermine any credibility you might have.

Andrew - thanks for the response! What are you referring to exactly? I'm not trying to misguide anyone or provide false information. Up for a healthy discussion though!

Thanks
Eric
eric@sur.co
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Re: Betalain Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
Would you please stop repeating your half-truths (at best) with respect to dietary nitrate? All it does is undermine any credibility you might have.


Please correct me if I'm wrong, I am not a scientist or physiologist myself so I very well could be. From what I've observed, all the the research on the performance benefits of beets uses indirect measurements of nitric oxide levels.

Just like you discuss with heart rate vs power training - the heart rate is influenced by so many other factors where as power is a direct measurement of effort. They are both important measurements, but one is direct and the other is an indirect measurement. There needs to be other factors considered when using heart rate - similar to saying nitrates are working because they are indirectly measured. Does that make any sense?

I was just trying to point out the differences between Betalains and Nitrates - because they work through completely different pathways in the body!

Thanks for helping refine the message though, its very helpful as we grow!

Eric
eric@sur.co

Eric Engel | http://www.ironmandiary.com
15% off INFINIT Nutrition w/ code: EENGEL-INFINIT
15% off AltRed w/ code: EENGEL-ALTRED
20% off AMP Human http://amphumanperformanc.refr.cc/ericengel
AP Racing "The Crew" | INFINIT Nutrition | AltRed | AMP Human
Last edited by: erengel23: Apr 17, 18 9:23
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Re: Betalain Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [erengel23] [ In reply to ]
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Perhaps I am misinterpreting your intent, but this:

"Most companies out their who sell a beet product - base their benefits on the fact that their products contain "Nitrates". The assumption being the nitrates convert into nitric oxide in your blood stream to provide the performance benefits. However researchers can't specifically measure those nitric oxide levels in the blood due to the extremely quick half life (<1 sec)."

appears to be an attempt to imply that either other beet-based products don't work, or if they do, it isn't by increasing nitric oxide production.

In point-of-fact, however, there is a wealth of evidence that ingestion of nitrate increases nitric oxide production (note that what happens in the tissues is just as, if not more, important than what happens in the blood). Furthermore, there is plenty of evidence that this can improve performance, to the point that nitrate was one of only four nutritional ergogenic aids deemed effective by the IOC.

Anyway, while I have your attention, any comments on the study below? Taking these data at face value, it would be difficult to explain any acute performance benefit observed for your product.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26873098
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Apr 17, 18 9:25
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Re: Betalain Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
Perhaps I am misinterpreting your intent, but this:

"Most companies out their who sell a beet product - base their benefits on the fact that their products contain "Nitrates". The assumption being the nitrates convert into nitric oxide in your blood stream to provide the performance benefits. However researchers can't specifically measure those nitric oxide levels in the blood due to the extremely quick half life (<1 sec)."

appears to be an attempt to imply that either other beet-based products don't work, or if they do, it isn't by increasing nitric oxide production.

In point-of-fact, however, there is a wealth of evidence that ingestion of nitrate increases nitric oxide production (note that what happens in the tissues is just as, if not more, important than what happens in the blood). Furthermore, there is plenty of evidence that this can improve performance, to the point that nitrate was one of only four nutritional ergogenic aids deemed effective by the IOC.

Anyway, while I have your attention, any comments on the study below? Taking these data at face value, it would be difficult to explain any acute performance benefit observed for your product.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26873098

Not saying the other products don't work - I think they do work! We have athletes and ambassadors who use both AltRed and Beet Elite or other similar products!

That's a great study we share openly! This is evidence that our product in fact does NOT use Nitrates as its mechanism to improve performance and recovery

The question I raise is - could the Betalains be what is producing these performance and recovery benefits in these beet products such as Beet Elite. There are way more Betalains in these products than AltRed - but just not as bioavailable. Its just a question - which we don't have an answer to, yet!

Again, not trying to discredit any other product. They do work, but AltRed is just not the same. It doesn't work the same as those products do.

Thanks for the constructive feedback Andrew! I'd love for you to try the product out yourself and do some personal research if you're interested. Shoot me an email and I can send you some to sample!

Thanks again,
Eric
eric@sur.co
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Re: Betalain Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [erengel23] [ In reply to ]
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erengel23 wrote:

That's a great study we share openly! This is evidence that our product in fact does NOT use Nitrates as its mechanism to improve performance and recovery

??

It appears that you didn't read the study to which I linked. It demonstrated that ingesting even 100 mg of betanins did not measurably elevate plasma levels. Plasma nitrate/nitrite, OTOH, went up significantly, just as you would expect. Thus, if anything the results of this study would imply the exact opposite of what you stated above.

erengel23 wrote:
The question I raise is - could the Betalains be what is producing these performance and recovery benefits in these beet products such as Beet Elite. There are way more Betalains in these products than AltRed - but just not as bioavailable. Its just a question - which we don't have an answer to, yet!

Actually, I think we do, since:

1) the earliest, and several subsequent, studies of dietary nitrate and exercise responses used sodium nitrate, not beet juice/a beet-based supplement; and

2) except for Jones' early work using black currant juice as a placebo, the vast majority of studies of beet juice have used Beet It and compared it to the nitrate- (but not betanin-) depleted placebo they sell to investigators.

Thus, there would seem to be no question that ingestion of nitrate has physiological effects, including on exercise performance. Whether betanins can add to this is what is still up in the air, but based on the study above, it would seem to require either much larger doses, and/or chronic supplementation (see below), to have any effect.

ETA: Here is a study that provided 0.7 mg/kg of betalain (about as much as found in your product) daily for 6 wk. Plasma levels peaked in the low NANAmolar range, whereas urinary concentrations were ~1000x fold greater. Obviously, absorption is an issue (which is why your pee, but not your plasma, turns pink after drinking red beet juice):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29638119
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Apr 17, 18 10:22
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Re: Betalain Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew - lots of information here, but thank you! Trying to sort through it all!


The study you posted first: (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26873098)


Here's what we gathered from it: Betalains are bioavailable, but research has indicated that the level of bioavailability seems to increase when smaller amounts of sugars and nitrates are present. Consequently, bioavailability of betalains from red beet juice is significantly lower than material like AltRed™ where the sugars and nitrates are in very low levels. We refer to this characteristic of AltRed™ as delivering betalains unbound


Let me check out the second study you posted and get back to you later today! Thanks again for the feedback on all of this!


Thanks
Eric
eric@sur.co

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Re: Betalain Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [erengel23] [ In reply to ]
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erengel23 wrote:
The study you posted first: (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26873098)


Here's what we gathered from it: Betalains are bioavailable, but research has indicated that the level of bioavailability seems to increase when smaller amounts of sugars and nitrates are present.

Not to be argumentative, but:

"Despite high betanin contents in both BTJ (~194 mg) and BF (~66 mg), betanin could not be detected in the plasma at any time point post-ingestion."
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Re: Betalain Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
betanin could not be detected in the plasma at any time point post-ingestion....



that's because it goes straight from the stomach to the placebo gland in the brain.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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Re: Betalain Supplementation? Anyone done this or seen research into it? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew - promised a follow up after I had a chance to talk with some of our scientists! I just got back from the Sea Otter Classic, so I apologize for the delay! Thank you again for the great feedback!



Re: Evidence of Nitrates increasing nitric oxide production

We have no objection to findings reporting the beneficial effect of dietary nitrates on sport activities. The mechanism behind their potency has also been described and is rather specific for this class of compounds. Objectively, it needs to be also addressed that there are publications reporting that nitrates have limited or no effect on exercise (1-4). As described, nitrates were bioavailable but did not deliver efficacious effect. Addressing all the factors involved in these unexpected results may help understand reasons of limited efficacy of ingested nitrate products. We will be soon be releasing some further study results address some unexpected information and betalains vs. dietary nitrates.



Re: Plasma Bioavailabilty Study you referenced (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26873098)

This manuscript refers to the Plasma bioavailability of nitrate from Beta vulgaris. Here the authors describe how beetroot juice provides NO in high concentration but betanin was barely detected in plasma regardless of its presence in supplemented material.

However, there are other studies showing that betalains are bioavailable after ingestion (for example from cactus pear or purified betalains as such). This suggests that bioavailability of betalains may depend on other factors, such as food matrix or on co-presence of other entities to some extent (for example sugars or even nitrates). Indeed, cactus pears contain relatively lower amount of sugars compared to beets. Also, cactus pears do not contain a significant amount of nitrates. Absence of nitrates and lower amount of glucose could be one of reasons why betalains from this material are bioavailable.

Furthermore, research on the mechanism of absorption of betalains has shown the involvement of membrane transporters and receptors such as MCT1, OATP2B1, MRP2 (5). Interestingly, various components including food elements may affect functioning of these receptors and carriers resulting in reduced or enhanced absorption of betalains (6).

Therefore, results reported in the publication cited by you do illustrate negative effect of red beet matrix on bioavailability of betalains present in that material. Your observations are valid and well-founded and we would like to mention that we are already addressing this issue in scientific detail. In order to understand how our AltRed works,, we are investigating the bioavailability of betalains from our extract (12.5mg of betalains per 50mg dose) comparing it to the equivalent amount of betalains in red beet juice, following a cross-over clinical study model that we will publish. Study subjects will be receiving either our extract or red beet juice after a washout period.

So far, results from clinical trials seem to indicate that betalains from our product are highly bioavailable and that our product significantly increased sport performance in supplemented subjects. We would like to mention that the mechanism of action that involves the bioavailability of the components of our product will be quite different from the mechanism pertaining nitrates or other supplements for sport performance. We are focusing on betalain-specific mechanisms improving sport performance activities completely independent of nitrates.

In the manuscript you mentioned, there are a couple of factors that were not taken into consideration. The first, the analysis was only performed in EDTA-plasma, under the assumption that betalains would be circulating in blood as free molecules. The second, when there is an excess of betalains, these tend to be eliminated through urine and there were no determinations of betalain content reported in this study. Additionally, only betanin was determined in plasma samples. It is well documented that betanin is one of the most abundant betalains in beetroot, however, bioavailability of other betalains present in beet was not measured.


It is mentioned here since rate of absorption of different betalains seems to be different. We would like to mention that we are studying the bioavailability of betalains from our extract and our preliminary results are similar to results previously reported by research group investigating bioavailability of betalains from cactus pear. Our preliminary results show that betalains from our product are highly bioavailable within 90 minutes after ingestion (manuscript in preparation). Our next step is to describe the kinetics and efficiency of betalain absorption and how it can be correlated with improvement of sport performance.



RE: The question I posed about whether it might be the betalains and not the nitrates that are producing these performance benefits

We have determined the amount of betalains available in our product. We also know that these betalains are bioavailable since we have previously seen results about bioavailability of betalains from different sources. Therefore, we focused on efficacy first. To this date, four studies have been completed by three different research groups (3 published, one in review) showing that there is a beneficial effect on exercise performance. In two separate studies, subjects were preloaded with our product with one last dose 1.5 hours before exercise. Results of these studies show statistically positive effect (power output, speed, distance). Furthermore, we also saw the increase in exercise performance in sedentary subjects after a single dose. All these studies were double blind, and placebo controlled.

As previously mentioned the mechanism of action of betalains on sport performance is quite different compared to other sport products including nitrates and requires more discovery clinical research. We are pursuing such research and results of this work that will be submitted for publication in 2018.

Our research is focused on betalain-specific effect on sport performance. Following this path, we assume that red beets contain two very different classes of chemical entities affecting sport performance; nitrates and betalains. According to our hypothesis, bioavailablity of betalains in presence of nitrates and/or sugars in high concentration is highly inhibited. Therefore bioavailability of betalains as well as stimulatory effect of betalains on sport performance needs to be investigated in absence of nitrates.



Re: Your study about the profile content of Betalains in Plasm (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29638119)

This paper is indeed interesting. Results published are raising an interesting question – how much betalain in blood is needed to provide beneficial effect on exercise. Preliminary results show that nM range is sufficient but more research is needed to conclude and to publish. Another question could be whether study subjects involved in this study could have any positive effect on sport performance if asked to exercise. Based on our observations while performing clinical studies as published – they could. The effect of Betalain is showing to be exercise induced and we will continue to publish on this.


Furthermore, people who are reporting beeturia after eating red beets (or drinking beetroot juice) do not have beeturia after taking our product. Such an observation may lead to possibility that other components not present in beets are determining whether ingestion of betalains in large quantities may result in beeturia. Based on published results, metabolism of iron may play crucial role in developing symptoms of beeturia (2 references are attached)


Again, thanks for the discussion! Would love to discuss further over the phone or next time our team is in your area! Here's a list of the references used above



(1) No improvement in endurance performance after a single dose of beetroot juice.
(2) Influence of acute dietary nitrate supplementation on 50 mile time trial performance in well-trained cyclists.
(3) Dietary nitrate does not enhance running performance in elite cross-country skiers.
(4) Sodium nitrate supplementation does not enhance performance of endurance athletes.
(5) Trans-epithelial transport of the betalain pigments indicaxanthin and betanin across Caco-2 cell monolayers and influence of food matrix.
(6) H+-coupled nutrient, micronutrient and drug transporters in the mammalian small intestine.


Thanks
Eric
eric@sur.co

Last edited by: erengel23: Apr 23, 18 12:40
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