My impression of running on Zwift

Apr 4, 18 10:26

Post #1 of 20 (5101 views)

I have been an avid Zwift user for the last year and absolutely love it for cycling. I do approximately 80% of my running on a treadmill, so I thought I'd give the zwift running program a try. Bought the Ant+ adapter and the 30-pin to lightning adapter, set up my Garmin footpod to connect to my iPhone and away I went. I had my footpod connected to my Garmin 920 as well.

The first thing I noticed was a rather large discrepancy between the pace measured on Zwift to that on my 920, about 15 sec/mi difference. I thought this was strange considering Zwift and my 920 should be receiving the same signal and information from my footpod. I've been using my footpod for the last 3-4 months and I have it calibrated to the treadmill speed (which also matches my RPE when running outside).

The 2nd issue was the dropouts......holy crap the dropouts. My little running avatar would stop to take a break while I suffered. Annoying, but I can see how this happens because there is a lot of hardware between my foot and my phone. I found if I dropped back a little on the treadmill, it would improve (a little).

Finally, I just did not feel any additional motivation to run. I already like the treadmill (ya, I'm strange) because it doesn't beat up my joints and is easier, for me, to do structured intervals. Watching my little avatar run did not give me the pickup I get when I am cycling on Zwift. Maybe this was due to my iPhone's tiny screen, maybe due to the dropouts, maybe because the treadmill incline doesn't automatically adjust like my Wahoo Kickr does....I don't know.

Anyone have any positive stories for me regarding running on Zwift? Any suggestions regarding the pace discrepancy or minimizing dropouts?

Really, the only positive takeaway I have is that it sure kicks ass to run up a hill and pass several cyclists.

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [treyedr] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 10:50

Post #2 of 20 (5055 views)

Like yourself, I've been on Zwift cycling for a long time (2+ years) and really enjoy it. I ride/run approximately 80% indoors these days for the same reasons you mentioned, plus convenience and safety.

I started Zwift running about 3 months ago. I use a Garmin footpod as well, but use a 4iiii Heart Rate strap for the ANT+ bridge. I don't have any dropout issues on my end (other than bad HR readings). With the Garmin footpod I do have to calibrate it prior to each run for it to be accurate. If not calibrated prior to each run I find it to be inaccurate by various margins. I would just suggest to calibrate prior to each run and then maybe look for another pod or way to bridge the ANT+ to BLU for your dropouts. Ideally I'd like to get the Wahoo Gym Connect or Stryd for more accuracy and less calibration.

Over the past few months, I've learned to enjoy it and rarely run now without Zwift. I don't get quite the experience as cycling, but it's better than staring at a brick wall in my case. I use a laptop or an ipad, so my screen experience may add to the enjoyment on my end. Join a group workout/group run if there is one available that fits your schedule. I think eventually it will morph as more people join and they add additional workouts and group runs.

What I don't like.....it's tough to do a gradient run with accurate readings. I'm not sure of a fix for that, but it would be nice if that data was pushed over.

J. Tyler Pate

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [treyedr] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 11:40

Post #3 of 20 (4961 views)

I started using Zwift because of the running feature - I am lucky to have a wall screen in front of me so when I project my avatar and running scenes to it, it helps - aside from that I too have found discrepancies with pacing and speed.

I have calibrated my foot pod to Zwift at different speeds in case one speed was better and it hasn't helped.

The issue I am finding is when I do group runs my pace is off by 30 seconds compared to my Garmin 920XT as well the speed between my treadmill and Zwift is off by .5 km/hr.

However when I am just free running the speed of my treadmill and Zwift is within .1 km/hr so - a lot more accurate - pace is still off by about ~20 sec.

When I do 8X400 repeats on one of the Zwift running workouts speed is accurate - pace is off by about ~20 sec.

I am beginning to think the algorithm Zwift uses to calculate speed and pace is off. I am about to go and do another workout and will see what speed and pace look like.

I will be sending Zwift a support ticket to explain the issues - cause as I see I am not the only one experiencing this.

Just found this on calibrating foot pod which I just realized I can adjust the calibration factor on my Garmin 920XT (I thought this wasn't possible maybe this was an update they have done)

Support
Understanding the Foot Pod Calibration Factor on my device
Calibration Factor is a way of manually calibrating your foot pod on your device. Some devices show the number as a percentage with decimals, others show it as a whole number. Please refer to the owner's manual for more information.
The Calibration Factor formula is:
Actual distance traveled, divided by (÷) distance displayed on watch, multiplied by (x) current Calibration Factor. To illustrate, you perform a 4 mile run, but the watch displays 4.47 miles, and the current calibration factor is 100.0%. The new calibration factor will be 89.5% (4 ÷ 4.47 x 100.0).

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"PAIN is nothing compared to what it feels like to QUIT" Wink

Wink

Last edited by: mooseknuckle69: Apr 4, 18 11:59

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [treyedr] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 12:51

Post #4 of 20 (4852 views)

I have about 750 miles on zwift. I started running on it as soon as they opened it up to the 2nd round of beta. What I can you about it is this. Originally, my garmin footpod was off about 10-15%. But it was off before I started running on zwift. The Indoor running feature on my 920 watch would always under estimate my speed by 10-15% of the treadmill and the footpod would over estimate it by 10-15%. I tried various ways to calibrate the foot pod but to no avail. So, for the first year I was just pretty much okay with being about .5mph an hour faster than the treadmill on zwift. Then, they put the little wrench button at the paring screen. I calibrated my foot pod with zwift and it's pretty much within .1mph ever since. So, now it's spot on.

As far as running on zwift. I like it. I enjoy the feature of leveling up (former gaming junkie) and sometimes enjoy running with other people. For a while, a guy out of Boston and I would log on at about the same time on Wednesday mornings and run about 7 miles. Both of us pushing each other in the last few miles. Another friend out of South Carolina would always jump on and tried to get me to run with him while I was doing my long run. So, there's been some days where I'd run 12 miles at a 7min mile pace. Not something I wanted to do, but like the cycling feature, the running feature can really push you. I do almost all my miles on the treadmill when I'm not racing so Zwift is perfect.

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [JTPATE] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 14:01

Post #5 of 20 (4768 views)

could you provide more details on how you place the laptop or ipad on the treadmill to run with zwift? or do you use a wall mount? Thanks

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [treyedr] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 15:06

Post #6 of 20 (4692 views)

I similarly found very little interest in Zwift running though I enjoy it and find it motivating on the bike. The lack of automatic changes in incline and pace really limits the interest. On the bike if I want to go harder I just pedal harder, but for the treadmill I need to look down and adjust the speed, etc. Furthermore, the vast majority of my running is steady state or longer intervals so inherently less interesting from a game perspective than cycling. A big part of that is I can really wreck myself on the bike at sprint points and climbs without a huge risk of injury whereas the same isn't necessarily true on the run. Said another way, I've learned the hard way that I need to rein it in on the run which makes the possibilities offered by Zwift not super exciting.

To sum up, I no longer launch Zwift on the treadmill and just stick with Netflix.

If something like the Wahoo treadmill interface ever controlled pace and incline (which they have already said they won't do for liability reasons) I'd definitely reconsider.

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [pabloarc] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 16:05

Post #7 of 20 (4644 views)

I've got a Matrix treadmill which has a built in tray below the screen. My laptop and iPad fit perfectly on that tray.

J. Tyler Pate

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [pabloarc] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 16:15

Post #8 of 20 (4636 views)

https://www.google.ca/...Shelf+Treadmill+Desk

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [treyedr] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 22:54

Post #9 of 20 (4508 views)

So did my workout and yup pace was still out by at least 30 seconds and speed was out by .4-.5 km - I am going to go to the track and run a set distance calibrate my foot pod manually as per the above instructions and try a run on Zwift again. If its still off - pace and speed - I will send a support ticket to Zwift.

Maybe @Rappster could comment on this?

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"PAIN is nothing compared to what it feels like to QUIT" Wink

Wink

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [mooseknuckle69] [ In reply to ]

Apr 4, 18 23:33

Post #10 of 20 (4489 views)

If it’s a Garmin foot pod to get it anything like accurate I found you need a different calibration factor/number for each different pace (eg 8:00, 7:00 & 6:00 min/miles will each have a different calibration factor). I gave up and bought a stryd which just works out of the box.

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [mooseknuckle69] [ In reply to ]

Apr 5, 18 6:15

Post #11 of 20 (4337 views)

Did you try and calibrate it through zwift? That's the only way it ever worked for me.

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [randomtriguy] [ In reply to ]

Apr 5, 18 6:46

Post #12 of 20 (4312 views)

that's great, will get one. Thanks

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [treyedr] [ In reply to ]

Apr 5, 18 7:54

Post #13 of 20 (4254 views)

Unlike some footpods - e.g. Stryd, Garmin stores the calibration factor of its footpods in the watch. So you can't actually calibrate the footpod itself; you can only calibrate the watch to each footpod. That's where the discrepancy comes from. But Zwift will save calibration data - just as we do with trainers - so if you calibrate the footpod on Zwift, you should be fine.

One thing to note, though, is that the 30-pin ANT adapter has been deprecated as of iOS 11 and has had basically zero updates in terms of support/firmware/etc from Wahoo for almost two years now. So that's simply not a reliable method of connecting. If you must use an ANT footpod, you need to use an ANT->BLE bridge like the 4iiii Viiva, which is functional but not awesome. But you definitely cannot expect a persistent, reliable connection via the ANT adapter with Lightning.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]

Apr 5, 18 10:05

Post #14 of 20 (4185 views)

Yes I have and still have the discrepancies.

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"PAIN is nothing compared to what it feels like to QUIT" Wink

Wink

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]

Apr 5, 18 10:12

Post #15 of 20 (4179 views)

Jordan, what are your recommendations?

I am consistently finding my pace and speed through Zwift does not match what my Garmin 920XT displays.

Zwift reports slower - speed ~.5 km/hr out and pace ~30 sec per km out.

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"PAIN is nothing compared to what it feels like to QUIT" Wink

Wink

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [mooseknuckle69] [ In reply to ]

Apr 5, 18 10:48

Post #16 of 20 (4148 views)

Have you tried calibrating it within Zwift? It won't make it line up with your Garmin but will make Zwift accurate to the treadmill. I have the Milestone pod and it's pretty good until I pick up the pace a lot then it reads slow.

Twitter - Instagram

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [jrielley] [ In reply to ]

Apr 5, 18 10:54

Post #17 of 20 (4142 views)

Yes I have calibrated it within Zwift at different speeds to see if that helped. Maybe the calibration factor is out so I will head to a track and calibrate the watch with the foot pod and see if that makes a difference, this could be the problem in so far as my garmin 920XT is out of whack when using the foot pod and Zwift is correct.

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"PAIN is nothing compared to what it feels like to QUIT" Wink

Wink

Last edited by: mooseknuckle69: Apr 5, 18 10:54

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [mooseknuckle69] [ In reply to ]

Apr 5, 18 10:59

Post #18 of 20 (4129 views)

My feeling is as long as the footpod is similar to my treadmill which is similar to Zwift I don't really care what the Garmin says. I just go by pace on Zwift/treadmill then change things after the workout to show the correct paces. But it would be ideal if they all lined up nicely though. That can't be too much to ask for.

Twitter - Instagram

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [treyedr] [ In reply to ]

Apr 5, 18 11:05

Post #19 of 20 (4123 views)

I have the same pace issue, where Zwift thinks I'm about 25-30 s/km faster than my treadmill says. The 920 correlates to Zwift, but only because I don't think I've done enough outside runs since the watch was replaced to get a good calibration for the foot pod to the watch.

I run Zwift through my laptop with an ANT+ USB dongle, and have no issue with drop outs.

I agree that it provides near zero motivation, unlike cycling; which I find very motivating. I typically have TrainerRoad control my Kickr and Zwift just reads my power meter. So even though "chasing" people in zwift doesn't make me go any faster, I do find it motivates me (dumb, I know).

What I like Zwift for (when on the treadmill) is displaying on my TV (HDMI from the laptop to the TV) so I can see my heart rate and cadence without dropping my chin (I typically listen to Podcasts while running indoors).

So I do get some use from Zwift on the treadmill, but I don't think I would have signed up for Zwift for the running if I weren't already using if on the bike.

Re: My impression of running on Zwift [mooseknuckle69] [ In reply to ]

Apr 5, 18 11:12

Post #20 of 20 (4113 views)

mooseknuckle69 wrote:

Jordan, what are your recommendations?

I am consistently finding my pace and speed through Zwift does not match what my Garmin 920XT displays.

Zwift reports slower - speed ~.5 km/hr out and pace ~30 sec per km out.

based off what you wrote later, maybe delete the calibration value currently in your 920 and recalibrate in there.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

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