Not that I am convinced your self diagnosis is correct, but you could try swimming with a snorkel and buoy to isolate the alleged issue. Video would be good.

Generally our arms/hands/pull do what they do because of other issues. So a truly inefficient pull would be a clue to a timing, rotation, or even a relaxation issue.

What has really helped me develop a decent stroke is swimming with paddles that are too big. They immediately show you were your breaking forces are during the stroke and make it easy to "line up" your hand with your body as your arm moves past your torso.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNae1KaY5v6LpvjnPldAVKE2NLcEWkiNwTaY4F97JPHV3a85lAwFzzfl-HKsFQxmg/photo/AF1QipMMvNmm8BEc6w53dcedmL2fUGbsVqbns2n25w0Y?key=S0FTZmtzNEtQdFhGTDNBdVV5bjVsVU54Z3lOWllB


https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNae1KaY5v6LpvjnPldAVKE2NLcEWkiNwTaY4F97JPHV3a85lAwFzzfl-HKsFQxmg/photo/AF1QipOq6bDMGACPa56EFuCXIFnOcQISFmz72FTdE_Vd?key=S0FTZmtzNEtQdFhGTDNBdVV5bjVsVU54Z3lOWllB


https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNae1KaY5v6LpvjnPldAVKE2NLcEWkiNwTaY4F97JPHV3a85lAwFzzfl-HKsFQxmg/photo/AF1QipNLYkuYocM0yLxyIOTBzQS9usidXEZPcXStmlUx?key=S0FTZmtzNEtQdFhGTDNBdVV5bjVsVU54Z3lOWllB


Not sure if this will work or not, but here's three videos. Ignore my not so aerodynamic body composition.

In the first video, you are not pulling straight back with your left hand.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Posted some videos above; however, nothing from underwater, so maybe they won't be all that helpful.

How does the one-armed pull drill work out for you? Does it isolate the problem?

to be honest, I probably do not complete that drill as much as I should.

Well, time to get started! If you are pulling all weird, you'll probably notice as you start fishtailing or doing other weird stuff. Doing it with ankles banded + buoy is a pretty good way to really isolate that arm pull.

And do it way if you want to improve the timing of everything.

I swim exactly as slow as you, and have struggled to get faster. Entirely different body (female, very narrow shoulders, no upper body muscle), but we swim surprisingly similarly, and I have been thinking about all my swim errors for years. So here are a few things I have noticed that may help you.


1. though it may feel to you like you are doing a high elbow/early vertical forearm pull, as the screenshots show, you do not. Your shoulder is very low when you start the pull, and this limits how far out (and up) your elbow is, and your forearm is almost at a 45 angle from vertical, so you are losing power here. Think about rotating the shoulder up/out/around and elbow out and up, to get the hand be more vertical (pointing more towards bottom of the pool). There are many youtube videos about this.

2. you are not finishing your pull. See how early your recovery arm hand is coming out of the water. Finish your pull all the way to straight arm down by your hip.

3. You are overgliding in the front and have a very low cadence. Try to limit overgliding and increase your cadence a little bit. It will help you find your rhythm.

4. here is what I look like underwater, I think it is somewhat similar to what you are doing (and I, too, "feel" like I am doing a good job of EVF, but in reality, I am not because I am not rotating my shoulder at the beginning of the pull).

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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.

Thanks! Have you had any success in repairing your evf issues? I wonder if it’s shoulder flexibility. I really feel like I’m rotating and reaching, but maybe I just don’t have a good idea of what I should be doing.

Oddly enough, I did have a coach on the deck tell me he thought my stroke was nice and relaxed and looked pretty good. I told him I felt cadence was an issue and he said not to stress cadence but to worry about getting stronger first. Perhaps that addresses my cadence and early recovery. I don’t feel like I can push past my hip and still get my hand forward. In other words, it feels like if I were to push longer that I would in turn glide even more than I currently do.

Right off the bat, I will disclose you and I are the exact same swimmer, right down to the comment that everyone who sees my stroke says, "You have such a great stroke".

That said, I'll comment and let the fish blast away or reinforce.

Your arms (left especially) are doing most of the reach outside of the water. I notice this because I had the same issue and have worked to correct it. Since your arm is fully extended so soon (and above the water), there's nothing left for you to do when you initiate the pull other than drop your shoulder and elbow. That is, there is no more reach left. If you enter your hand sooner and reach more under water, you still get a glide, but also can initiate a proper catch. If you watch your video, you can even see where your bicep contacts the water and pushes it forward. I can't imagine that is good for reducing drag.

It also looks like your left arm enters, goes deeper, and then rises back to the surface making your hand do a "stop" sign. Again, bad for drag.

Like I said, though, you might possibly be able to beat me in a race so what do I know. I'm passing on things people have noticed similarly in me.

Thanks for this!

So what is the solution for over extending above the water? If I have my hand enter with bent elbow should it never straighten? Just stay bent and rotate into the catch? Or it should extend under water and then rotate to catch? I guess I really struggle with how to get that rotation for the elbow to pull high.

i'm another one in a similar situation to you and for me at least, Kat's comment above has been the key to what gains i have made recently. the shoulder is key to the catch and when i can get that right everything else comes together. unfortunately i can't consistently do that but i'm hoping it will come with practice.

have you seen jonnyo's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1KReTEXiBM

Yes, Jonnyo’s video is key, I have been trying to do that, too. Thanks for linking it.

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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.

Elbows dropping and shoulder is his shoulder is not elevated ...

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

How do you elevate the shoulder? Elbow is dropping as a result of the others diagnosis of over reaching?

Should I assume that my stroke should actually be shortened?

Watch that jonnyo video linked above. In the last part, he demonstrates on an exercise ball how your arm should be aligned to pull properly. I don't *think* any great degree of shoulder is needed to do the pull properly, but rather you just have to feel it with both arms.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I'll do a dryland video...

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)