Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Am I fast enough (swimming)? [hammonjj] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
hammonjj wrote:
I've only started swimming ~4 months ago, but I've taken it seriously since I had virtually no swim background before this (5 swims a week of 30-45min, lots of video analysis of pros, etc) and find that my threshold pace is about 1:25 per 100m. However, I noticed that this seems to be a pretty respectable swim speed for most age groupers. I'm focusing on Xterras at the moment, so those are the times I'm looking at with an eye towards 70.3 in the future; I have literally no interest in full IM racing. And the swim seems to be the least important of the three disciplines from an overall time standpoint.

Should I swim less (3-4 times a week) and focus on the other two sports? My run seems to be going well, but I think my bike leg will be my weakest, at least as of this moment. This leads me to believe I should swim less and focus on the bike, but I don't know if more gains in the swim are going to lead to more overall time gain than if I focused more on the bike. Admittedly, my FTP has TANKED since I started triathlon training from a high of 315 watts at my peak last year (148 lbs).

For reference, I'm training 10-12 hours a week with 4-5 swims (1:25 per 100m), 3-4 runs (7:00 10k pace) and 4 bikes (250w FTP) per week (mostly trainer given my work/family schedule). Oh, I'm also 31, if that matters.

No you are not fast enough. Swimming. What do you really call threshold pace as, 1000TT, is that how you arrived at your 1:25 or you swam 60min all out and held that pace. 1000TT does not even remotely establish the threshold pace, though some may call it here that way. Swimming community uses T3000/T30 or similar to establish the threshold estimate. Judging by duration of your swims, they are never long enough to estimate the threshold pace.
As a reminder, in swimming world, 1000/800 or 1650/1500 are all VO2max affairs, above threshold for sure. If tests are used at those distances, they estimate VO2max pace, which is faster than threshold. Urbanchek and crowd have tables to reverse estimate threshold from their rainbow charts.
Have fun. 1:25/100m on few hundreds is ok and will get you to back end of FOP. The question is if you can actually hold something like that in 1500m, that buys you just over 21:00, still not FOP.
Quote Reply
Re: Am I fast enough (swimming)? [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SharkFM wrote:
JoelO wrote:
hammonjj wrote:
I've only started swimming ~4 months ago, but I've taken it seriously since I had virtually no swim background before this (5 swims a week of 30-45min, lots of video analysis of pros, etc) and find that my threshold pace is about 1:25 per 100m. .


Please tell me that's at least short course meters (25 meter pool), not long course. If you're swimming a 1500m in 21:15 after 4 months of swimming, you've got more swim talent than the majority of the folks racing. To compete in your age group, your bike and run do need attention. That's a respectable FTP and running pace but those are the 2 areas you'll need to work on to compete for a podium spot in larger events.

1:25/100m...dang.


I was thinking the same thing, after 4 mons I have never seen anyone go that fast unless they were killer at yoga and line dancing (kick :)
Any stroke video??

I am the same. No swim background prior to early 30's but if I put in 2-3 months of 3-4 swims a week I can get down to about that same pace. Now to get any faster than that, I would need to really swim a ton and likely get some coaching because I am sure my stroke is technically terrible especially considering the complete lack of shoulder/back flexibility. Because of this, I have focused primarily on running this past off season and am now working the bike back in. A neck issue is keeping me out of the pool (I had planned to bring that back in starting in February), however I know I just need a good 8-12 week block to at least be on the same level as before with my swim. Not leading out of the water, but definitely nearer the FOP than MOP.

Someday I would love to do a swim focus just to see how fast I could maybe get, however I have so much ground to make up on the bike and run that I have to let the swim be what it is for the foreseeable future.

"It's good enough for who it's for" - Grandpa Wayne
Quote Reply
Re: Am I fast enough (swimming)? [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Eric, AB, and other life long swimmers,
do you see adults with NO swimming background ever, decide to start swimming, jump in and have a natural 'good' stroke( no sinking legs, EVF, low head, etc..?)
Quote Reply
Re: Am I fast enough (swimming)? [Sunday] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Occasionally, not often. Maybe 5%.
Quote Reply
Re: Am I fast enough (swimming)? [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
FindinFreestyle wrote:
Occasionally, not often. Maybe 5%.

Ya, i'd say 5% at the very most, which would be 1 in 20. Most people need some instruction to get their breathing down, i.e., to stop lifting their head when breathing.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Quote Reply
Re: Am I fast enough (swimming)? [hammonjj] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm glad everyone else chipped in.

One of the most extraordinary humble brags I've read on here recently!

Yes you are more than fast enough, although I guess it depends on your endurance etc.

For comparison I have come out of the water in the top 10% of my AG (possibly top 10% of the AG overall actually) in my last 4 IMs. Just before race day I am lapping at about 1.35 with a PB. 1.30 with a PB and paddles. I swim the IM in sub 60 (55 in Wales but I am very positive it was short.)

(and before anyone else chips in off topic, yes I know that means my legs must be sinking etc etc. I am also an AO swimmer and not a perfect human being who can correct all their faults.)

Your FTP is shit in comparison, work on that.
Quote Reply
Re: Am I fast enough (swimming)? [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yeah, agreed. I think the question posed by the OP should be how to raise my FTP, not am I a fast enough swimmer.
Quote Reply
Re: Am I fast enough (swimming)? [atasic] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
atasic wrote:
hammonjj wrote:
I've only started swimming ~4 months ago, but I've taken it seriously since I had virtually no swim background before this (5 swims a week of 30-45min, lots of video analysis of pros, etc) and find that my threshold pace is about 1:25 per 100m. However, I noticed that this seems to be a pretty respectable swim speed for most age groupers. I'm focusing on Xterras at the moment, so those are the times I'm looking at with an eye towards 70.3 in the future; I have literally no interest in full IM racing. And the swim seems to be the least important of the three disciplines from an overall time standpoint.

Should I swim less (3-4 times a week) and focus on the other two sports? My run seems to be going well, but I think my bike leg will be my weakest, at least as of this moment. This leads me to believe I should swim less and focus on the bike, but I don't know if more gains in the swim are going to lead to more overall time gain than if I focused more on the bike. Admittedly, my FTP has TANKED since I started triathlon training from a high of 315 watts at my peak last year (148 lbs).

For reference, I'm training 10-12 hours a week with 4-5 swims (1:25 per 100m), 3-4 runs (7:00 10k pace) and 4 bikes (250w FTP) per week (mostly trainer given my work/family schedule). Oh, I'm also 31, if that matters.

No you are not fast enough. Swimming. What do you really call threshold pace as, 1000TT, is that how you arrived at your 1:25 or you swam 60min all out and held that pace. 1000TT does not even remotely establish the threshold pace, though some may call it here that way. Swimming community uses T3000/T30 or similar to establish the threshold estimate. Judging by duration of your swims, they are never long enough to estimate the threshold pace.
As a reminder, in swimming world, 1000/800 or 1650/1500 are all VO2max affairs, above threshold for sure. If tests are used at those distances, they estimate VO2max pace, which is faster than threshold. Urbanchek and crowd have tables to reverse estimate threshold from their rainbow charts.
Have fun. 1:25/100m on few hundreds is ok and will get you to back end of FOP. The question is if you can actually hold something like that in 1500m, that buys you just over 21:00, still not FOP.

That's 1.25 pace in a pool sans wetsuit. With wetsuit it would be 1.15 - 1.18 which equates to around 24 minutes, making him one of the fastest AGers and up there with the slower pros.
Quote Reply
Re: Am I fast enough (swimming)? [hammonjj] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
hammonjj wrote:
I've only started swimming ~4 months ago, but I've taken it seriously since I had virtually no swim background before this (5 swims a week of 30-45min, lots of video analysis of pros, etc) and find that my threshold pace is about 1:25 per 100m. However, I noticed that this seems to be a pretty respectable swim speed for most age groupers. I'm focusing on Xterras at the moment, so those are the times I'm looking at with an eye towards 70.3 in the future; I have literally no interest in full IM racing. And the swim seems to be the least important of the three disciplines from an overall time standpoint.

Should I swim less (3-4 times a week) and focus on the other two sports? My run seems to be going well, but I think my bike leg will be my weakest, at least as of this moment. This leads me to believe I should swim less and focus on the bike, but I don't know if more gains in the swim are going to lead to more overall time gain than if I focused more on the bike. Admittedly, my FTP has TANKED since I started triathlon training from a high of 315 watts at my peak last year (148 lbs).

For reference, I'm training 10-12 hours a week with 4-5 swims (1:25 per 100m), 3-4 runs (7:00 10k pace) and 4 bikes (250w FTP) per week (mostly trainer given my work/family schedule). Oh, I'm also 31, if that matters.

Thanks for the advice! I come from a road and mountain bike background and am still really new to designing training around three sports.

Just echoing some of the other comments. 1:25/100m is plenty fast and definitely FOP for most races assuming you any open water/drafting skills. At worst you can sit on the feet of most the few guys who are out there faster than you. I think the thing that has been overlooked so far is the fact that you were a 315FTP at 148lbs less than a year ago. That is almost 4.7W.kg which puts you in some very elite cycling company. If I were you I would indeed try and get that FTP back up which will almost certainly help your run as well, which to me looks like your weakest leg at this point (although not bad at all).

My guess is that spending 50%+ of your training time on the bike will yield the biggest bang for the buck, particularly as you know that you have tremendous potential there (4.7 W/kg!...I'm jealous)
Quote Reply
Re: Am I fast enough (swimming)? [hammonjj] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I vote your run needs the most work.
Quote Reply
Re: Am I fast enough (swimming)? [Sunday] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I would say It's under 5%. Far less develop a good range ... I am not a sprinter but can manage a 56 high, 57 low in the 100m Free and both recent times it was the 3rd race on the day.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
Quote Reply
Re: Am I fast enough (swimming)? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DFW_Tri wrote:
Yeah, agreed. I think the question posed by the OP should be how to raise my FTP, not am I a fast enough swimmer.

I honestly don’t understand how you can ride 4x per week and have your FTP drop 65 Watts??? Ie from pretty fop ag to very average.

...maybe he took some time off or something?

Maurice
Quote Reply

Prev Next