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POSE Running - skills and training
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Looking at run videos and got a pop-up ad for video-based12wk running program called Pose Running on Vimeo.
The content aligns very much with some of my thinking on the subject. I signed up for it ($50 or so).

The Pose concept first establishes how and why we are able to run, then re-distributes training program priorities.

Skills & drills followed by a mix of distance and intervals. I'm currently in love with intervals and it's in most sessions.

OK so the Pose concept is:

We can run because of gravity (forward lean)
The fundamental running movement is leg contraction, or picking up the foot to your ~ knee level.
The reflex action is getting the other leg down so you don't fall on your face

Posture, balance, lower leg springiness, resulting in forefoot landings. Efficiency.
They also suggest thin sole, zero drop footwear et al and working on developing feel through the soles of feet.

Now it all rings true to me and makes a lot of sense. If you have spent the better part of your life like me "pushing" as in cycling, skating, skiing - you are going to be a crap runner out of the gate. And this past few weeks doing butt kicks my one leg even gave up (due to nerve issues).

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Last edited by: SharkFM: Mar 26, 18 18:13
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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It's a great way to become a worse runner, unless you are really bad from the start.

(George M Dallam , Randall L Wilber , Kristen Jadelis , Graham Fletcher & Nicholas Romanov (2005) Effect of a global alteration of running technique on kinematics and economy, Journal of Sports Sciences, 23:7, 757-764)

I'm also pretty certain that it's a bad idea to land on your forefoot. I just cant see how it's a good idea.

Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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A couple years ago I hired a Coach to make me better going into Nationals. He changed my shitty running technique to the POSE method 6 weeks before the race. It didn't work out. I continued to try the concept but it just didn't feel right. About the only thing I do now is Fall Forward when starting a run.

He still teaches the POSE method of you want his name, PM me. I don't use him for a Coach anymore but he is a great guy.

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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [timr] [ In reply to ]
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While I haven't taken their course I've used some of their concepts and became a better runner. But then I'm really not a good runner to start with.
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
While I haven't taken their course I've used some of their concepts and became a better runner. But then I'm really not a good runner to start with.


+1 Just read a little bit on it and did some work to stop overstriding (that was 15 years ago or so), and I went from a really shitty runner to a mediocre runner. I compare it to Total Immersion in the pool, it's great if you are absolutely terrible, but if you are reasonably good it's not going to get you better.

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Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Mar 27, 18 4:59
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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Kind of echoing what the others have said. My first coach tried having me do the Pose drills and stuff. If someone is a really slow cadence heal striking causing injury kind of runner, it probably has some benefits to somebody someplace, but in general running is a pretty simple concept that we learn instinctual pretty soon after we stark walking. Kids run pretty well while never thinking about technique once. it takes a triathlete to try to figure out a better way to run.

My second coach had a much better philosophy when it came to running technique. Dude, just run. Sometimes hard, but mostly easy. Its easy to go too hard but hard to go too easy. When going easy, if you can't talk in paragraphs, its too hard.

The really crazy thing is there is also Pose biking and Pose swimming. Now that crap is a good laugh. Oh the dumb ass swim drills that first couch had me doing.
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [tfleeger] [ In reply to ]
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tfleeger wrote:
Kids run pretty well while never thinking about technique once..

Some do. Some kids (who shall remain nameless) have terrible coordination and was always the slowest runner in the class.

____________________________________
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [mortysct] [ In reply to ]
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So I've been reading a little more about Pose running and I found an article from sport scientists that says lifting you leg with your hamstring and pulling through is less efficient than driving you knee forward.

I honestly never really thought of me doing it that way (pull through) but now I think that's exactly what I do when running fast (for me).

Maybe I'll look into a little more or just run like I have been doing.
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know about 'POSE', but if you want to improve your stride technique and run smoothness, go minimalist. Train in as little shoe as possible, and slowly get down to zero shoe when you can.

I wrote about my transition to minimalist running in the past 6-8 months before - it's been great. I'm faster than I ever was, don't rely on shoes for support/stability, and can run in nearly anything. No injuries as well - those cushiony shoes allow you to overdo running when you shouldn't be, whereas in minimalist, since you're much more reliant on calf/achilles, you will usually have to stop or dramatically slow before you overdo it. Trail running is also awesome with minimalist - wayyy more interesting and in fact for me, faster on downhills.

The only real downside is the biggest upside of minimalist running - you have to improve slowly and gradually. The vast majority of folks who quit doing this are just impatient that they can't go out and race a half marathon when they've only been averaging 15 miles per week of running (and without biking to supplement). WIth cushiony shoes, sure, you could probably go out, bang that out, and be injured for the rest of the year, but with the minimalist shoes, that's going to be impossible (you will be walking once you hit your limit as your achilles will limit) unless you have properly built yourself up to the distance/speed.
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I've actually gone that route before and had ran in the NB minimus and the Saucony A4 for quite some time. I have no problem running in the A4 for a Half Marathon.

I felt that I learned a lot about how to run from doing that but have moved back to the Wave Rider and Hitogami. Interesting enough, I start liking the Riders more when they get around 300 miles on them and are crushed down so I can feel the ground.
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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When my coach worked on changing my running form, I developed Plantar Fasciitis within 2 weeks that took over a year to get rid of. Changes has consequences.
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
I don't know about 'POSE', but if you want to improve your stride technique and run smoothness, go minimalist. Train in as little shoe as possible, and slowly get down to zero shoe when you can.

I wrote about my transition to minimalist running in the past 6-8 months before - it's been great. I'm faster than I ever was, don't rely on shoes for support/stability, and can run in nearly anything. No injuries as well - those cushiony shoes allow you to overdo running when you shouldn't be, whereas in minimalist, since you're much more reliant on calf/achilles, you will usually have to stop or dramatically slow before you overdo it. Trail running is also awesome with minimalist - wayyy more interesting and in fact for me, faster on downhills.

The only real downside is the biggest upside of minimalist running - you have to improve slowly and gradually. The vast majority of folks who quit doing this are just impatient that they can't go out and race a half marathon when they've only been averaging 15 miles per week of running (and without biking to supplement). WIth cushiony shoes, sure, you could probably go out, bang that out, and be injured for the rest of the year, but with the minimalist shoes, that's going to be impossible (you will be walking once you hit your limit as your achilles will limit) unless you have properly built yourself up to the distance/speed.


Like a lot of "tings" Pose is what you make of it. After 30 minutes of the drills, I was able to more or less implement the stride in a track session last night. The net result was I matched my 400M PR, and went 2nd fastest 100M over 20 km/h which matches my all time top speed. This is all in the pouring rain and wearing a biking jacket!!

My running stride was much more lower leg active (spring) and softer. It was like cycling but using a pulling up motion on pedals. To do this on a slow jog you can one-leg it, much like doing a one-arm fly. It's very efficient, easy on the body too. This is how Eluid is running btw, very clear on that, no matter how Nike is trying to screw that up :)

However I shouldn't have been running last night. I had a sore left heel going in and I got too excited at the new found speed, overcooked things a bit. I realize now that have the plantar thing, but this is due to tight calf etc. I was also in my Addias boosts due to the rain.

My Merrell barefoots are worn out so have new ones on order.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://www.jagersport.com/
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
I've actually gone that route before and had ran in the NB minimus and the Saucony A4 for quite some time. I have no problem running in the A4 for a Half Marathon.

I felt that I learned a lot about how to run from doing that but have moved back to the Wave Rider and Hitogami. Interesting enough, I start liking the Riders more when they get around 300 miles on them and are crushed down so I can feel the ground.

Amazingly, the NB minimus to me doesn't even seem that minimalist - it feels like too muhc shoe to me!

The Saucony A4 might be less cushioned than a Hoka, but that's def got a cushiony midsole - that's the type of shoe I could run in UNadapted to minimalist, but is much more akin to a full blown stability shoe than a minimalist shoe.

I myself actually didn't have much success with taking the transition to minimalist in half-steps, like finding shoes that were gradually less and less cushioned (they're hard to find in such progressive gradation.) I ended up just running a LOT less at first, but going all-in to straight up barefoot whenever possible, and uberminimalist 'water shoes' (literally a sock with a plastic sole) and taking it really slow and gentle for awhile. My technique has dramatically improved - I'm a dead flatfoot, and was like the world's biggest heel striker, but now I'm up on the forefoot, and striding fast on technical downhills with much more grace and speed than before. It even FEELS dramatically better - there's no question if you ask a dancer where they're going to get more balance and body control, they are NEVER going to say while standing on their heel, but def are going to say standing on the ball where their toes can help.
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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SharkFM wrote:
lightheir wrote:
I don't know about 'POSE', but if you want to improve your stride technique and run smoothness, go minimalist. Train in as little shoe as possible, and slowly get down to zero shoe when you can.

I wrote about my transition to minimalist running in the past 6-8 months before - it's been great. I'm faster than I ever was, don't rely on shoes for support/stability, and can run in nearly anything. No injuries as well - those cushiony shoes allow you to overdo running when you shouldn't be, whereas in minimalist, since you're much more reliant on calf/achilles, you will usually have to stop or dramatically slow before you overdo it. Trail running is also awesome with minimalist - wayyy more interesting and in fact for me, faster on downhills.

The only real downside is the biggest upside of minimalist running - you have to improve slowly and gradually. The vast majority of folks who quit doing this are just impatient that they can't go out and race a half marathon when they've only been averaging 15 miles per week of running (and without biking to supplement). WIth cushiony shoes, sure, you could probably go out, bang that out, and be injured for the rest of the year, but with the minimalist shoes, that's going to be impossible (you will be walking once you hit your limit as your achilles will limit) unless you have properly built yourself up to the distance/speed.



Like a lot of "tings" Pose is what you make of it. After 30 minutes of the drills, I was able to more or less implement the stride in a track session last night. The net result was I matched my 400M PR, and went 2nd fastest 100M over 20 km/h which matches my all time top speed. This is all in the pouring rain and wearing a biking jacket!!

My running stride was much more lower leg active (spring) and softer. It was like cycling but using a pulling up motion on pedals. To do this on a slow jog you can one-leg it, much like doing a one-arm fly. It's very efficient, easy on the body too. This is how Eluid is running btw, very clear on that, no matter how Nike is trying to screw that up :)

However I shouldn't have been running last night. I had a sore left heel going in and I got too excited at the new found speed, overcooked things a bit. I realize now that have the plantar thing, but this is due to tight calf etc. I was also in my Addias boosts due to the rain.

My Merrell barefoots are worn out so have new ones on order.

Yeahh....sounds like you're going all-in too fast, honestly. To be able to run your PR 400m speed right off the bat with <1 month of adaptation is really begging to strain/tear something. Still, sounds like you're going in the right direction, just be careful about getting overenthuastic since sounds like you're still wearing cushion-type shoes which actually do allow you to really overdo it.
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I disagree with the minimus being a lot of shoe, mine are basically a piece of rubber on the bottom and my A4 isn't anywhere near a stability shoe.
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
I disagree with the minimus being a lot of shoe, mine are basically a piece of rubber on the bottom and my A4 isn't anywhere near a stability shoe.

I have been using my Merrell road gloves as my primary shoe. I use my Brooks Ghost, Hokas etc for events or to switch things up.

The road gloves are hard to find (even out of stock @ Merrell) - you are saying the NB minimus would get that same feel for the road?

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
I disagree with the minimus being a lot of shoe, mine are basically a piece of rubber on the bottom and my A4 isn't anywhere near a stability shoe.


Ok, you're right - the minimus is not a LOT of shoe ; for a regular shod runner, it's def minimalist!

But compare it to a pure barefoot runner, or running in a 'water sock' - it's a lot of shoe in comparison, even if it has no midsole. You'll def notice as a barefoot runner!
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Re: POSE Running - skills and training [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I wanted to give a running update because some things have really evolved for me.

#1 Went to work with somebody who happened to be a pretty good trainer. I've been doing single leg work and correcting balance, posture, mobility and alignment issues.

#2 I was told to stop running over the summer until the body got fixed up. Which was a good idea.

#3 Now that my hips and alignment are much improved, things started to "fall" into place. I call it running with your bones. I am way way more efficient. This is more like Chi running, where your hips are perfectly balanced over your legs as they land. Total forefoot strike but doesn't feel like it.

#4 Running is really quite effortless. Alignment is not only centered front-back but what I call down the middle, the inside ball of foot, arches up through the interior of the legs straight connected the spine. It's amazing. I was actually busting along the other day thinking how great the "new" alignment is working and got a complement on my stride by someone, just out of blue!

Happy trails !

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Last edited by: SharkFM: Dec 6, 18 18:50
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