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Re: Big gear training [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:

You're skirting one answer to why big gear train has value; climbing. Your theoretical 10% grade? Even with a 34/32, it's nearly a 4 watts/kilo effort to hold 85 rpm up that. That'll redline a lot of triathletes in a hurry.

I did the TrainerRoad drills to increase my comfortable cadence range, and it led to a higher FTP. Unfortunately, I got grooved into to making power in a narrow rev range (~85-95 rpm). I fatigue much faster holding 120% of FT at 70 rpm than holding 120% of FTP at 90 rpm. When I hit a steep hill, even in the lowest gear, I quickly fall out of the bottom of my power band. There's a limit to how much low gear the drivetrain can accommodate, and carrying a wide range cassette creates another issue for a narrow-power-band rider; gaps between gears. This spring, my training objective isn't to increase my FTP, but rather to broaden my powerband by doing more "big gear" workouts.

+1, this is what I have always read from other smart people, and my coach has always told me as well. Not only are you going to grind a little bit up sustained climbs, but having a wide range of comfortable cadences will allow you to avoid shifting too often and will help maintain momentum as the gradient naturally varies. For example, on a slight roller you might just reduce cadence to 75-80 in the same gear, to crest the hill instead of shifting.

I'm not going to make any scientific declarations, but I always thought cadence was self-selecting. If you tell me to ride @ 80% for 3 hours, I am going to subconsciously pick the cadence that makes that effort as easy as possible, which is usually slightly higher than 90rpm, for me. But there are natural variations that can call for reduced/elevated cadence which you can do drills for.

Strava
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Re: Big gear training [triathlonpal] [ In reply to ]
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damn it, I see I'm late to the pile on.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Big gear training [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
damn it, I see I'm late to the pile on.

Come on, we have been waiting for you.
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Re: Big gear training [vittorio] [ In reply to ]
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What do you consider low rpm?

I just pulled up my Strava for Paris Mountain to eat some humble pie. 75rpm.

I think I do most of this work outdoors vs indoors and just do it without thinking. Hence why it didn’t make sense. Oh well.
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Re: Big gear training [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
What do you consider low rpm?

I just pulled up my Strava for Paris Mountain to eat some humble pie. 75rpm.

I think I do most of this work outdoors vs indoors and just do it without thinking. Hence why it didn’t make sense. Oh well.

I meant something like 50rpm not without thinking, but doing it on purpose to work on "strength".
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Re: Big gear training [vittorio] [ In reply to ]
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Oh, well I consider 70 rpm a grind. 50 rpm, man. It very well may work, I couldn't justify the hurt on the knees though. Me personally.

I'm not old. But I'm not a 25 y/o bike racer either. That kind of thing could turn out real bad for some people. First thing over on Bikeradar they always talk about with people with knee issues wanting to vacation at Ventoux or something is to rent a bike with a triple on it. Not suffer up a double crank at something like 50 rpm.

I do the time crunched stuff myself, but this sounds like a way to train long-ride endurance in shorter time. Even the time crunched plans do back to back days with more TSS to simulate the TSS of the full century or long ride event.

I can buy this if we're talking 70rpm, because yeah, you'll have to do that up a climb. But, 50? Need to train more period to not spin 50rpm. Or lose weight. Lol.
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Re: Big gear training [Brandes] [ In reply to ]
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What I am going to say is what I have heard from numerous people and my own experience, there is not scientific data that I have.

When it comes to best cadence for racing (triathlon), you really want a high cadence, the closer to you run cadence the better. That way your legs are moving the same speed running as cycling. This allows you not to have to adjust as much to the difference. If you were to cycle at 70-75rpm that would only work out to a 140-150 running cadence, which is fairly low for most people. Now if that is your run cadence then maybe that rpm works for you, but for most it would definitely be faster.

On the side of Low Cadence Bike training I know it has helped my racing significantly, especially with the ability to climb hills. I also as odd as some people may think, that my actual race cadence increased in speed last year, after doing more low cadence work on the bike.
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Re: Big gear training [tyme] [ In reply to ]
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tyme wrote:
What I am going to say is what I have heard from numerous people and my own experience, there is not scientific data that I have.

When it comes to best cadence for racing (triathlon), you really want a high cadence, the closer to you run cadence the better. That way your legs are moving the same speed running as cycling. This allows you not to have to adjust as much to the difference. If you were to cycle at 70-75rpm that would only work out to a 140-150 running cadence, which is fairly low for most people. Now if that is your run cadence then maybe that rpm works for you, but for most it would definitely be faster.

On the side of Low Cadence Bike training I know it has helped my racing significantly, especially with the ability to climb hills. I also as odd as some people may think, that my actual race cadence increased in speed last year, after doing more low cadence work on the bike.

That’s another great point! The transition from bike to run is another thing to think about when choosing race cadence. And even on the run the quicker cadence is more efficient.

I’ve found the same thing that low cadence drills on the bike didn’t actually lower my race cadence any, but the high cadence drills have increased my self-selected cadence out on the road.

-Nate
Triathlonpal.com
Flaer|Team Kiwami|Nuun Hydration|Honey Stinger
Twitter: @N8deck
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Re: Big gear training [triathlonpal] [ In reply to ]
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[quote]And even on the run the quicker cadence is more efficient. [/quote]

economical not efficient.

In running it's running or run economy not run efficiency.

most people, > 95% of all people in fact, will self select the most economical running cadence for themselves.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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