Your saddle is low, but it's impossible to tell how much since we can't see you feet at the bottom of the pedal stroke very well. I'd suggest raising the saddle 15 mm or so to start. Maybe 20.

I think your saddle choicemay restrict you from having better posture. You have a very rounded back because you need to rotate your pelvis aft, but I'm guessing that will make the saddle pressure intolerable.

There's more work than just that to be done, but until you raise the saddle, hold better posture (open your chest up a bit, doing so has the side effect of rotating your pelvis) and provide another look. It's hard to know what the steps beyond raising the saddle should be until we see what happens.

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Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

Saddle choice is awful and that's where the problems start. Not even sure it's possible to rotate forward on a Toupe without major pain, that's not how it's designed to be ridden. If he raises the seat, that will just be more pronounced and obvious. So I would start by finding a saddle that can be sat upon with pelvis rotated forward, and then the whole fit can be reworked. Probably a bit higher seat and further forward, then adjust front end after that. But saddle has to be the first priority.

I was hoping the saddle problem would be come self-evident when he raised it.

When I see a saddle like the Toupe on a tri bike, usually the rider has spent a great deal of effort and suffered much before arriving at the choice they've made. Can't tell you how many good bike fits of mine have been ruined by a rider that refuses good saddle advice.

But the change won't be made until the rider buys in, and I think putting the saddle at the proper height may be the best way to do it.

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Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

I suspected this might be where you were going. Not an unreasonable tactic.

Of course, the hurdle to overcome is where is this guy going to have access to the appropriate saddle choices such that he can even begin to make a decision.

a reputable bike fitter would have ALL the saddles to test... ;)

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

In an ideal world I agree with you. Can you ballpark what kind of investment we're talking about? I'm not being rhetorical, that's a real question (other fitters please feel free to chime in, or I can ask on the fitter's forum).

Also, what if a fitter does more than TT/multisport fits and also needs to have saddle options for road/cx/mtb/etc?

Why do so many people advocate a tall saddle height? His saddle is lower than the tri-norm, but lower also tends to be faster unless the power detriment becomes greater than the aero benefit. And I'm pretty sure he isn't there yet, especially for long course.

I think we need a sticky for how to take fit videos and photos. Camera height (~saddle/bar height), distance (farther is better), angle (perpendicular), lighting (front not back), clothing and kit (what you'd wear in a race including helmet), posture (looking up the road), etc. Simple stuff.

I've got about 80 saddles on the wall and a SwitchIt.



I'd estimate the average number of saddles tried by a rider is about 20 before we find a favorite through process of elimination. There are quite a few that never finish in the top 4 or 5 for anybody, but I got here in the quest to find good solutions for people. Frankly, I don't feel it's worth maintaining that kind of inventory and need to prune some of them. I could probably narrow down the selection to around 20 and have decent solutions for triathlon/TT, MTB, road, and CX. I would also double those classifications for women/men. It also doesn't help that the manufacturers keep updating their product lines, so it's a fight to stay current (especially if you're not especially high volume).

I do close to 300 fit sessions per year including new customers and follow-ups, but always try to work with what the rider has first. We often can make huge improvements by looking at other aspects of the fit first before we come to the conclusion that the saddle has to go. As a result, I maybe sell 50-75 saddles a year, and they are usually the same handful of models with a few outliers.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Why are you advocating a low saddle height? ;)

A higher saddle opens your hip angle. As long as you don't go too high and cause reaching, rocking, or diminished performance, there are fit benefits to a higher saddle other than aerodynamics.

Also, a lower saddle can cause rocking as the rider tries to manufacture more extension and "push away" from the pedal. Not saying that is happening in this case, just something I see from time to time.

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Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

We average around 3. Worst cases around 10. Most of the time 1 or 2.

My customers don't have the patience yours seem to.

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Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

I put riders at the saddle height where they pedal best. I don't try to manipulate their aeroness with a slightly lower saddle.

I have 15-20 saddles in my fit space, the number varies because I loan them out for people to try for a week or so before making a decision. I used to do 50-60 fits per year, I'm primarily a coach and fitting is only a small part of what I do. Now I'm down to 20-30 fits per year partially due to being in a smaller market, and partially due to my schedule. So it's really not cost-effective for me to keep more saddles than I have, many of which are castoffs from me or one of the athletes I work with. I also don't sell seats, so there's no way to make them generate revenue (if I wanted to work in a bike shop I'd work in a bike shop).

I think Cobb either has (or used to have) a way to stock those saddles for not a lot of money, and I think SMP might have something similar. Unfortunately that's harder to do with bigger companies who work directly with shops (and in some cases have their own fit methodology & training), since they view independent fitters as their competition. Even just to stock all the various ISM models at wholesale cost, I'd have to raise my rates considerably to justify it.

Anyway, while I do the same as you in terms of trying to make existing equipment work for fits as much as possible, seats are probably the biggest area I see that simply has to be changed before a proper fit can be done. I'm happy that we've seen so much progress in bike seats in the last 20 years (in the early 80's I had a bike with a Brooks - yikes!), but there has to be a better way for fitters and the general public to be able to evaluate them before settling on one.

What does "pedal best" mean? And why would anyone assume that a saddle height a person has used for years with no issues would be "too low"?

If someone like the OP comes on and wants position advice when he clearly states he has no problems in his current position, I'd assume he wants to go faster. Shouldn't suggestions follow a theme of "manipulating aeroness" in a positive way, or at least not negative? A taller saddle runs in the opposite direction.

I would definite manipulate his aeroness, but I would not compromise rider selected and goniometer approved knee flexion and extension to do it.

"Best" is what the riders says is best, as long as it looks reasonable and falls within range. I don't understand the reasoning of then telling the rider "I am going to lower your seat height 6mm, down to where it didn't feel as good, so you can maybe be a tiny bit more aero".

Let's just say if I was only doing TTs, my saddle would probably be a lot lower than it is, and I'd spend the time to adapt. In initial experiments the power loss just about canceled out the aero gain. And since I didn't want to take time to adapt and also lose climbing ability on the road, I didn't pursue it. Since the OP is already adapted to a lowish saddle and isn't complaining, I'd never assume that raising it would help him go faster.

I get the hip angle deal, and maybe if the OP just came off the couch that would be a good place to start. The goal then is usually just being able to stay in aero and finishing.

No one is advocating that. Rather people are advocating a higher saddle to someone with 7 years of adaptation at his current height and is not complaining. Even if it happened to "feel better", that is moving in the opposite direction of speed, unless you can prove otherwise with power (after adaptation) and aero testing.

I am finally able to post a new video with my seat raised 20 mm (all in) with a better view of the pedal stroke. Thanks to everyone who took the time to view and comment on the first video. Although I said I was comfortable I don't really have a reference as I have been riding in this position for many years as I'm not a tinkerer. Willing to experiment in prep for 2018 season

I assume you're still on the Toupe?

Probably went a little too far on saddle height. Drop it 5 mm or so. And pull it as far forward as it will go.

Then angle your extensions upward a bit.

I'd like to see your elbows more forward relative to the armpads and that might mean you need longer extensions. I still want you more forward relative to the saddle, and the Toupe just isn't going to allow that.

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Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

Pettrifier,

What other saddles have you tried in your quest to get a Tri-fit, and why are you on the Toupe? May be a perfectly logical reason.

That said, you are sitting on that bike like you'd sit on a road bike. You are sitting on the back half of your pelvis with your poor taint crying on the front half on that saddle if it isn't completely numb already. A saddle that lets you sit on the front half of your pelvis, gents hanging off the front, would be comfortable for *most*.

Again, you may have done your due diligence and selected the Toupe for a great reason. The thing is, it's a sketchy saddle for *most* people trying to get into a good TT/tri position. Maybe not for you, but pictures do tell.

So what's the deal with the Toupe?

Matt

When I bought the bike new in 2009 it had a San Marco saddle, not sure what model. The stitching started to go so went to the fitter that my coach recommended and the Toupe is what he put me on. Just never questioned the selection and never tried anything else.