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Crash video
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Something about humans makes crash videos attract the eye.

Video opens with us sliding thru turn 1 at about 110mph. Torkel turned into "The S's" with his left rear wheel on the rumblestrip, which is slippery. That kicked his rear end out from under him, he went into a tank slapper, and then hooked left. He was doing prob 85.

I got on the brakes as much as the lateral g loads allowed. Didn't want to get collected. Years ago I hit the wall in about the same place, so I'm always cautious in the S's.

Torkel wasn't hurt. There's so much protection around us, that it's very rare for someone to get hurt. His car got beat up tho. It's rear end will need to be cut off at the C pillar and a new rear end welded on.

Rest assured that the video wouldn't be public w/o Torkel's approval.

https://vimeo.com/259619157

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"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
Last edited by: RangerGress: Mar 16, 18 11:23
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Re: Crash video [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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You confused me with "tank slapper" as that is typically a motorcycle term (or at least first thing that popped in my head).

Nice to hear the guy was ok. Looks like a fun time at Road America (I assume from the RA abbreviation).
Last edited by: loxx0050: Mar 16, 18 11:01
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Re: Crash video [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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crash? Looked like someone slid off the road.
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Re: Crash video [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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Is that Road Atlanta?
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Re: Crash video [loxx0050] [ In reply to ]
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loxx0050 wrote:
You confused me with "tank slapper" as that is typically a motorcycle term (or at least first thing that popped in my head).

Nice to hear the guy was ok. Looks like a fun time at Road America (I assume from the RA abbreviation).


Re. tank slapper. I'm sure the car types stole it from the motorcycle racers. The latter might not have had enough survivors to object.

Road Atlanta.

Road America is on my bucket list. Just haven't got there yet. Is a long tow from coastal GA. This year's bucket track is Circuit of the Americas, the F1 track in Austin TX. The NASA (National AutoSport Assoc) national champs will be there in the Fall.

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"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
Last edited by: RangerGress: Mar 16, 18 11:42
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Re: Crash video [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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Classic wreck.

Wouldn't he have been better to stay straight (off track) on the right? As soon as he gets back on track the tires hooked up and he launched back across and into the wall.
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Re: Crash video [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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Good to know on the track. Me being in the Midwest automatically thinks of Road America as one of the bigger nearby tracks.

I miss those days. When I had the time I didn't have the money for the track days (just enough to modify/keep my car running). When I had the money I didn't have the time. These days I've got other obligations and don't do the car enthusiast thing anymore as a hobby.
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Re: Crash video [svennn] [ In reply to ]
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svennn wrote:
Classic wreck.

Wouldn't he have been better to stay straight (off track) on the right? As soon as he gets back on track the tires hooked up and he launched back across and into the wall.
Torkel was screwed. The video doesn't depict how very steep that downhill is. There's very little traction on the racing surface, and at those speeds, zero track in the grass. His rear end stepped out abruptly. Usually you can feel it about to happen and you're already compensating with steering and throttle almost instantly. But when it happens with an abrupt slip, you end up behind the curve, so to speak. In that scenario one has to react super aggressively and fast, and then just as aggressively and fast once rear wheels start coming back under you.

Easy to say, but hard to do. Even money that I wouldn't have been able to recover from that one either.

Trying to go into the grass at the right could have worked. It would have taken a miracle to get it right tho. That grass had no traction at 85mph, so he'd have to hit it with zero lateral g. At those speeds in the grass, and it tends to be moist there in the middle of that saddle, a breath of fresh air would have been enough to divert the car off the planned route. I say "planned" but it's all reptile brain immediate reactions. Some folks reptile brains are magic. The rest of us, like me, aren't magic. We're highly reliable at bringing the beer tho.

LorenzoP wrote:
crash? Looked like someone slid off the road.

Here you go. It's from 3yrs ago. In 10yrs, this was our all time worst crash. 3 cars KIA, 3 WIA.
https://vimeo.com/114076338

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"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
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Re: Crash video [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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Did you see the video of Marc Gene setting the Road Atlanta course record in a 2003 Ferrari GP car? 1:01.2
from Jalopnik
I think this was just this week, maybe even this morning

el cabrero
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Re: Crash video [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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RangerGress wrote:
svennn wrote:
Classic wreck.

Wouldn't he have been better to stay straight (off track) on the right? As soon as he gets back on track the tires hooked up and he launched back across and into the wall.
Torkel was screwed. The video doesn't depict how very steep that downhill is. There's very little traction on the racing surface, and at those speeds, zero track in the grass. His rear end stepped out abruptly. Usually you can feel it about to happen and you're already compensating with steering and throttle almost instantly. But when it happens with an abrupt slip, you end up behind the curve, so to speak. In that scenario one has to react super aggressively and fast, and then just as aggressively and fast once rear wheels start coming back under you.

Easy to say, but hard to do. Even money that I wouldn't have been able to recover from that one either.

Trying to go into the grass at the right could have worked. It would have taken a miracle to get it right tho. That grass had no traction at 85mph, so he'd have to hit it with zero lateral g. At those speeds in the grass, and it tends to be moist there in the middle of that saddle, a breath of fresh air would have been enough to divert the car off the planned route. I say "planned" but it's all reptile brain immediate reactions. Some folks reptile brains are magic. The rest of us, like me, aren't magic. We're highly reliable at bringing the beer tho.

LorenzoP wrote:
crash? Looked like someone slid off the road.

Here you go. It's from 3yrs ago. In 10yrs, this was our all time worst crash. 3 cars KIA, 3 WIA.
https://vimeo.com/114076338

That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing. Must be so much fun to get it there and compete like that.

The difference in speed between your vids and that F1 car is unreal tho. When you see that are you like, yeah I could figure out how to do that or are you: omg, there is just no way?
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Re: Crash video [triguy101] [ In reply to ]
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cabrero wrote:
Did you see the video of Marc Gene setting the Road Atlanta course record in a 2003 Ferrari GP car? 1:01.2
from Jalopnik
I think this was just this week, maybe even this morning
That video got wide distro among the folks in my class. When we were at Road Atlanta last weekend, there were crews setting up pavilions. We asked them "what's up?" That's when we found out that Ferrari was bringing historic F1 cars for some event involving high end customers and the like.



triguy101 wrote:
That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing. Must be so much fun to get it there and compete like that.

The difference in speed between your vids and that F1 car is unreal tho. When you see that are you like, yeah I could figure out how to do that or are you: omg, there is just no way?

It's easy to get into. Couple different routes. There's "Driver's Education" events at tracks all over the nation. Folks take their cars to the event and, in relatively safe and sane conditions, build skills and confidence until they feel like they're ready for competition school. Competition school isn't about learning to drive fast. It's about talking about how to stay out of trouble, getting some time in close quarters with other cars, and it gives the sanctioning org an opportunity to check you out. If they're not comfortable with you, no license. Folks that go to comp school have, on average, prob 30-40 days of track experience.

The other route, and it's less common, are the various shake and bake schools. They attempt, in 3-5days, to turn a relatively inexperienced person into a comp school graduate. I've not been in one of those, but I'm kinda biased against them. I can't imagine how one could train up their reptile brain automatic reactions sufficiently in such a short period.

The reptile brain automatic reactions are really important because your forebrain is focused on scheming against your buddies around you. You're playing chess. While sliding thru a turn alongside your best beer drinking buddy. At 100mph.

Me in an F1 car. The difference between amateurs and pros. Racing is a funny sport. In every other competitive sport I can think of, it's all about who is better. But in racing, it's more about who has money. Most folks racing in the pros have bought their ride. Only the very best of the pro drivers have paid gigs, the rest are paying huge sums to participate. It's those best guys that we all hear about, but much of the field, in any pro race, is actually made of up well-heeled guys engaging in their hobby. Because there's such huge money in F1 tho, the fraction of salaried drivers is probably high.

Like in any field of endeavor, the skills of those at the top are indistinguishable from magic. The best drivers in any big class have breathtaking skills. Our class is the 3rd largest in the world. The biggest class is based on the Miata. We've a couple guys in LR that are in that Miata class. The top guys in the big amateur classes occasionally go do some pro races (Not F1 to my knowledge. Those top amateurs crush the paying drivers and get on the podium against the salaried drivers.

I have lots of video and data from our top drivers. I can only occasionally do what they do. And I have to scare the shit out of myself to do it. Whereas they will be magic in turn after turn consistently for 30min, I might achieve "magic" in one turn on one lap. Call it a magic ratio of 200:1. Whereas they are pretty comfortable at "that" degree of out of control in a turn, I'm generally not willing to terrify myself, so often the magic ratio is 200:0. I'm not magic, I'm the guy that brings hilarity, a big smile, and beer.

Re. could I figure out how to do that. There are amateur classes of lightweight cars with lots of aero that are reminiscent of F1. Those kinds of cars are a helova lot faster than our cars, so the driver has to be executing much faster than we do. Me, being average in a big class, I suppose that I could figure out one of those lightweight cars well enough to be average there too. F1 and Indy are at the pointy end tho. I suppose that with some practice I wouldn't embarrass myself against the "pros" that have bought their ride. That wouldn't put me anywhere near the guys that are really good tho. I'll never be magic.

There's lots of classes of high hp cars, but most of those drivers aren't very good. Folks that gain their skills in low hp cars are forced to work very hard learning how to optimize turn exit speed, which is the whole ballgame for fast laps. Because in a low hp car, every 0,5mph you lose in a corner, you continue to bleed away time all the way down the straightaway that follows. High hp cars just hit their magic gas pedal. As a result, high hp drivers aren't "punished" for losing tiny slivers of turn exit speed like low hp drivers are. That has a huge influence on skill development. That's why the average Miata racer is much more skilled then the average guy racing in a fancy Mustang, Porsche, or anything else with >200hp. Seeing a dozen Miatas head into a turn at 100mph at 12" spacing, maintain the spacing as they all slide from turn-in to the apex, and still have that spacing as the all end the slide at the outer edge of the track, is some magic shit.

A video that has no speedo in it doesn't provide the viewer much info re. the speeds of what is going on. So the combo of a speedo, and understanding that the cars are as much "sliding" as "turning", makes the vid much more fun to watch. Here's a vid with a speedo. https://vimeo.com/159221010

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"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
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Re: Crash video [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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COTA is fun. Got to do a couple hot laps in my own car there. We had to stay single file. I got an increased appreciation for going balls out, side by side, like the pros do.
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Re: Crash video [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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I love watching vids like that. I wish I lived closer to a track so that I could get into racing. Thanks for sharing!

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Starting from scratch...
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Re: Crash video [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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You are a better driver than cameraman!
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