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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
I can't imagine why anybody would want to live in a place where you're accommodation poor on $200,000 a year with no hope of purchasing a house unless you're willing to commute 2 or 3 hrs each way. Find a little town out in bumfuk, nowhere and you can purchase a nice house on a third of your salary.

I've talked about this with my daughter. She lives in Vancouver and has zero possibility of purchasing a house on her salary. I've told her if she'd move to my neck of the woods I could help her with a down payment and she'd be able to easily carry a mortgage on half the salary she is making now. Makes all the sense in the world to leave Vancouver but she won't because she tells me she "loves Vancouver too much". And then she asks me where would she meet a guy in the boonies. 33 yrs old and still single. Not like meeting the right guy has been working out in Vancouver after being there for ten years. Kids:-(

Same here. My daughter is 31 and lives in Seattle. She and the guy I think she is going to marry both make good coin. Both realize there is zero chance they can afford to ever buy a house in Seattle. They could be making similar money a lot of other places and have a nice place. They don't even have to live in the boonies to do so, just someplace more reasonable. But, she says she loves Seattle too much. The boyfriend, not so much, but he loves my daughter, so, he's screwed.

Now, my son, on the other hand, has finally come around. 30 years old, just got married, lives in Henderson, NV. He and wifie finally got the "adventure" out of their systems and are ready to start a family. So, they are moving back here where they can afford to do so.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
I can't imagine why anybody would want to live in a place where you're accommodation poor on $200,000 a year with no hope of purchasing a house unless you're willing to commute 2 or 3 hrs each way. Find a little town out in bumfuk, nowhere and you can purchase a nice house on a third of your salary.

I've talked about this with my daughter. She lives in Vancouver and has zero possibility of purchasing a house on her salary. I've told her if she'd move to my neck of the woods I could help her with a down payment and she'd be able to easily carry a mortgage on half the salary she is making now. Makes all the sense in the world to leave Vancouver but she won't because she tells me she "loves Vancouver too much". And then she asks me where would she meet a guy in the boonies. 33 yrs old and still single. Not like meeting the right guy has been working out in Vancouver after being there for ten years. Kids:-(


Same here. My daughter is 31 and lives in Seattle. She and the guy I think she is going to marry both make good coin. Both realize there is zero chance they can afford to ever buy a house in Seattle. They could be making similar money a lot of other places and have a nice place. They don't even have to live in the boonies to do so, just someplace more reasonable. But, she says she loves Seattle too much. The boyfriend, not so much, but he loves my daughter, so, he's screwed.

Now, my son, on the other hand, has finally come around. 30 years old, just got married, lives in Henderson, NV. He and wifie finally got the "adventure" out of their systems and are ready to start a family. So, they are moving back here where they can afford to do so.

That Aesop guy knew what he was talking about. ;-)

The City Mouse and the Country Mouse

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Think about living in Mountain View (Google headquarters) where you need to be making at least $300K a year to buy a three bedroom house on a 6,000 square foot lot.
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Think about living in Mountain View (Google headquarters) where you need to be making at least $300K a year to buy a three bedroom house on a 6,000 square foot lot.

That's just stupid. Not the three-bedroom house, but the price for one of them. We live in a condo (because we don't want to cut grass or do exterior maintenance), but most of my family and friends that live in houses and not apartments or condos have backyards much bigger than 6,000 square feet. Talk about an overheated real estate market...

Man, I was stationed for a time up in the Bay Area and other parts of Northern California (and Southern; it's like two different states). I liked SFO and everything around it. Great lifestyle, at least back when I was there (and the last time I was in the Napa Valley was for the '98 Vineman half-Iron tri). But is it worth having to try to make more money than many specialty physicians make in a year just to live up there? I'm not so sure.

I tell you: that tar paper shack in the wilds of Montana is looking better and better with each passing year. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
I can't imagine why anybody would want to live in a place where you're accommodation poor on $200,000 a year with no hope of purchasing a house unless you're willing to commute 2 or 3 hrs each way. Find a little town out in bumfuk, nowhere and you can purchase a nice house on a third of your salary.

I've talked about this with my daughter. She lives in Vancouver and has zero possibility of purchasing a house on her salary. I've told her if she'd move to my neck of the woods I could help her with a down payment and she'd be able to easily carry a mortgage on half the salary she is making now. Makes all the sense in the world to leave Vancouver but she won't because she tells me she "loves Vancouver too much". And then she asks me where would she meet a guy in the boonies. 33 yrs old and still single. Not like meeting the right guy has been working out in Vancouver after being there for ten years. Kids:-(


Same here. My daughter is 31 and lives in Seattle. She and the guy I think she is going to marry both make good coin. Both realize there is zero chance they can afford to ever buy a house in Seattle. They could be making similar money a lot of other places and have a nice place. They don't even have to live in the boonies to do so, just someplace more reasonable. But, she says she loves Seattle too much. The boyfriend, not so much, but he loves my daughter, so, he's screwed.

Now, my son, on the other hand, has finally come around. 30 years old, just got married, lives in Henderson, NV. He and wifie finally got the "adventure" out of their systems and are ready to start a family. So, they are moving back here where they can afford to do so.

Sorry, I would live in a tent in Seattle before I moved to Henderson.

Don't get me wrong. I live in Columbus for a reason. But places like Seattle, SF, Vancouver, etc. have definite advantages even over Edens like Columbus. There is a reason so many people want to live there.

You just have to make tradeoffs on how big your house is if you live there. They don't get an affordable 3000+ sf house on a large lot, we don't get mountains, oceans, or beaches.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
Don't get me wrong. I live in Columbus for a reason. But places like Seattle, SF, Vancouver, etc. have definite advantages even over Edens like Columbus. There is a reason so many people want to live there.

You just have to make tradeoffs on how big your house is if you live there. They don't get an affordable 3000+ sf house on a large lot, we don't get mountains, oceans, or beaches.

Understood. But, I do not think a lot of these younger folks really can afford to even live there. I'll use my kids as examples - 30 and 31 years old. They cannot afford to own a home, so they are not creating any equity. The cost of living is draining nearly all their income, so they are not investing or doing much, if anything, for retirement. Now, granted, they are paying their bills and have a roof over their heads. But, they are talking family, kids, not working forever, etc. That isn't going to happen at this pace.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Its unreal.

A few years ago I got a linkedIn request from a recruiter from Google. I don't want to move to San Fran, especially not being a tech person (this was back office job), I took phone interview because, well how often do you get someone like google to seek you out and ask to interview you!! Pretty much ended when I said no to moving to their HQ office. I would be poor on a back office salary.
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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All of these posts point to two things, an inability to understand about how things work, and a huge lack of imagination on the part of most of the LR.
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
All of these posts point to two things, an inability to understand about how things work, and a huge lack of imagination on the part of most of the LR.

I don't understand your response. Please explain.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Repeatedly folks here don't seem to understand why folks come to the Bay Area or why they stay. These type of bias has been going on for literally decades, yet young folks seem to ignore it and do just fine. "Makes all the sense in the world to leave " "my son, on the other hand, has finally come around". There are certainly reasons to live in a more affordable are AND different reasons to live in more expensive areas.
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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Do these young people often stay? Or do you have high turnover? I get what your saying, but how is it turning out after a few decades?

Young and single or even a married DINK, yeah I think bay area would be fun and an experience. I would have done it for a while, but now that I have kids and realize I need to save for retirement, no way!

The article attached says 66% of millennials have no retirement savings. I think that is a high number, but even if it was 10-20% overstated that is a high number. Article states its due to student loans and rent/mortgage.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/07/retirement/millennial-retirement-savings/index.html
Last edited by: AndysStrongAle: Mar 7, 18 9:12
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
Repeatedly folks here don't seem to understand why folks come to the Bay Area or why they stay. These type of bias has been going on for literally decades, yet young folks seem to ignore it and do just fine. "Makes all the sense in the world to leave " "my son, on the other hand, has finally come around". There are certainly reasons to live in a more affordable are AND different reasons to live in more expensive areas.

I wasn't making any reference to the Bay Area. I merely commented on the situations involving my daughter in Seattle and my son in Henderson.

I cannot speak for others, but, it is not "bias" on my part, in a negative sense. If someone wants to rent forever and consume their entire paycheck on living expenses for the location, more power to them. What I don't understand is expressing the desire to own a home, raise a family, and retire at 65 while continuing to live in a place that does not permit any of that. Again, I am only speaking as it pertains to my two kids.

My son has "finally come around," in the sense that he recognizes he and his wife cannot do these things in Henderson. Perhaps many others can, but, he cannot. Plus, he really likes Milwaukee - go figure.

Look, I still live in the "starter home" wifie and I bought 15 years ago. My associates have bigger and more expensive houses than mine. So, my mentality as it pertains to living expenses is quite different than that of many others.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [AndysStrongAle] [ In reply to ]
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AndysStrongAle wrote:
Do these young people often stay? Or do you have high turnover? I get what your saying, but how is it turning out after a few decades?

Young and single or even a married DINK, yeah I think bay area would be fun and an experience. I would have done it for a while, but now that I have kids and realize I need to save for retirement, no way!

The article attached says 66% of millennials have no retirement savings. I think that is a high number, but even if it was 10-20% overstated that is a high number. Article states its due to student loans and rent/mortgage.

http://money.cnn.com/...t-savings/index.html


I think it is spot on. I also believe, if that was changed to "adequate retirement savings," that number would rise to 90%.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
Do these young people often stay? Or do you have high turnover? I get what your saying, but how is it turning out after a few decades?

Young and single or even a married DINK, yeah I think bay area would be fun and an experience. I would have done it for a while, but now that I have kids and realize I need to save for retirement, no way!

The article attached says 66% of millennials have no retirement savings. I think that is a high number, but even if it was 10-20% overstated that is a high number. Article states its due to student loans and rent/mortgage.

http://money.cnn.com/...t-savings/index.html



I think it is spot on. I also believe, if that was changed to "adequate retirement savings," that number would rise to 90%.

What I see in my little world are the young people move into Toronto (insert any large city) after University to work, party and have fun. once they meet someone and decide they want more out of life,they leave and settle down somewhere outside that city.
I don't know too many older folks nowadays that move to the big city to retire.
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
Do these young people often stay? Or do you have high turnover? I get what your saying, but how is it turning out after a few decades?

Young and single or even a married DINK, yeah I think bay area would be fun and an experience. I would have done it for a while, but now that I have kids and realize I need to save for retirement, no way!

The article attached says 66% of millennials have no retirement savings. I think that is a high number, but even if it was 10-20% overstated that is a high number. Article states its due to student loans and rent/mortgage.

http://money.cnn.com/...t-savings/index.html



I think it is spot on. I also believe, if that was changed to "adequate retirement savings," that number would rise to 90%.

It doesn't bother me that millennials haven't saved anything. People in their 20's have never been high on saving for retirement.

The scarier thing is the number of people overall with little or not savings. This article claims 56% with less than $10k, http://time.com/...ment-savings-survey/

There are a lot of different scenarios and different people will need different amounts. But $10k only works if you plan to die before 62 and you are using that money to get buried.

Me, I've run the numbers and if I retire right now I could live comfortably for the next 11 minutes.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [M~] [ In reply to ]
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M~ wrote:
What I see in my little world are the young people move into Toronto (insert any large city) after University to work, party and have fun. once they meet someone and decide they want more out of life,they leave and settle down somewhere outside that city.
I don't know too many older folks nowadays that move to the big city to retire.

That was my impression, until recently. What is interesting is that this is becoming "a thing" here in Milwaukee (and elsewhere). High end apartments and condos are going up downtown, especially around the new Milwaukee Bucks arena. They are catering more to empty nesters and retirees than to young urban types. Wifie is even talking about it, now that we are empty nesters (but far from retirement).

Wifie and I went to Nashville for a Packers game a year ago. We met a newly retired couple who moved from their huge rural house to a smaller condo downtown, within walking distance of the NHL arena. They retired, moved to the city, bought season tix, and go to all the games. They have a few friends doing the same. Not sure I would want to do this, but I can see part of the appeal.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
JSA wrote:
AndysStrongAle wrote:
Do these young people often stay? Or do you have high turnover? I get what your saying, but how is it turning out after a few decades?

Young and single or even a married DINK, yeah I think bay area would be fun and an experience. I would have done it for a while, but now that I have kids and realize I need to save for retirement, no way!

The article attached says 66% of millennials have no retirement savings. I think that is a high number, but even if it was 10-20% overstated that is a high number. Article states its due to student loans and rent/mortgage.

http://money.cnn.com/...t-savings/index.html



I think it is spot on. I also believe, if that was changed to "adequate retirement savings," that number would rise to 90%.


It doesn't bother me that millennials haven't saved anything. People in their 20's have never been high on saving for retirement.

Agreed. But, this is spilling into people in their 30s.

j p o wrote:
The scarier thing is the number of people overall with little or not savings. This article claims 56% with less than $10k, http://time.com/...ment-savings-survey/

There are a lot of different scenarios and different people will need different amounts. But $10k only works if you plan to die before 62 and you are using that money to get buried.

Agreed. But, these millenials are not at all forward thinking. Very few have any plans to buy a house at any point in the remote future. Many are absolutely drowning in student loans. It is a different situation.

j p o wrote:
Me, I've run the numbers and if I retire right now I could live comfortably for the next 11 minutes.

No shit. I completed an online retirement calculator a couple weeks ago and nearly had a panic attack. Fortunately, I do not plan on retiring anytime soon.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
M~ wrote:

What I see in my little world are the young people move into Toronto (insert any large city) after University to work, party and have fun. once they meet someone and decide they want more out of life,they leave and settle down somewhere outside that city.
I don't know too many older folks nowadays that move to the big city to retire.


That was my impression, until recently. What is interesting is that this is becoming "a thing" here in Milwaukee (and elsewhere). High end apartments and condos are going up downtown, especially around the new Milwaukee Bucks arena. They are catering more to empty nesters and retirees than to young urban types. Wifie is even talking about it, now that we are empty nesters (but far from retirement).

Wifie and I went to Nashville for a Packers game a year ago. We met a newly retired couple who moved from their huge rural house to a smaller condo downtown, within walking distance of the NHL arena. They retired, moved to the city, bought season tix, and go to all the games. They have a few friends doing the same. Not sure I would want to do this, but I can see part of the appeal.

I see that here too. Our neighbours, empty nesters, and can sell their house for a cool 2 million easy (its paid off). Husband wants to move to high rise condo downtown and not worry about house chores. Same thing with a co-worker and wife who are recently empty nesters. They are thinking of selling house in the burbs and moving into a downtown condo.
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [AndysStrongAle] [ In reply to ]
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Do these young people often stay? Or do you have high turnover? I get what your saying, but how is it turning out after a few decades?
Some stay, some don't. The turnover is high, but lots of folks remain. It has been turning out extremely well for (usually two-income) families who have purchased. Of course, it is always going to turn out well after a few decades if you purchase a property that rises >6% annually. New buyers are funded by family wealth and /or high incomes and/or stock options and/or appreciated housing that gets rolled over. OTOH, I know some long-time renters (usually single) who never bought, and they are moving out to populate cheaper areas with their evil "blue" ideas ;).

Quote:
The article attached says 66% of millennials have no retirement savings. I think that is a high number, but even if it was 10-20% overstated that is a high number. Article states its due to student loans and rent/mortgage.

34% of millennials have retirement savings??? That is surprisingly good and I am not being facetious, I didn't have savings at that age, and student loans have been burying a good percentage of kids recently.
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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I probably live in my own little world as I have never worked/lived in a HCOL area with the exception of growing up. I'm a millennial (low 30's) but my wife and I are very much savers and I can tell you we are probably in your 10% adequate retirement savings.

But like you stated, student loans is a killer to most people. Rent probably comes in a close second.
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [Uncle Arqyle] [ In reply to ]
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Uncle Arqyle wrote:
JSA wrote:
M~ wrote:

What I see in my little world are the young people move into Toronto (insert any large city) after University to work, party and have fun. once they meet someone and decide they want more out of life,they leave and settle down somewhere outside that city.
I don't know too many older folks nowadays that move to the big city to retire.


That was my impression, until recently. What is interesting is that this is becoming "a thing" here in Milwaukee (and elsewhere). High end apartments and condos are going up downtown, especially around the new Milwaukee Bucks arena. They are catering more to empty nesters and retirees than to young urban types. Wifie is even talking about it, now that we are empty nesters (but far from retirement).

Wifie and I went to Nashville for a Packers game a year ago. We met a newly retired couple who moved from their huge rural house to a smaller condo downtown, within walking distance of the NHL arena. They retired, moved to the city, bought season tix, and go to all the games. They have a few friends doing the same. Not sure I would want to do this, but I can see part of the appeal.


I see that here too. Our neighbours, empty nesters, and can sell their house for a cool 2 million easy (its paid off). Husband wants to move to high rise condo downtown and not worry about house chores. Same thing with a co-worker and wife who are recently empty nesters. They are thinking of selling house in the burbs and moving into a downtown condo.

Interesting. When my wife and I were between houses, we had to rent a friends condo while the house was being finished. That was the most miserable 3 months ever. TONNES of rules, too many people and the elevators drove me crazy. I guess you can get use to anything but it was a real pain in the ass. The final straw was when they told me I couldn't bring my bike into the condo and had to leave it in the parking garage in the POS bike rack. Yeah, that was going to happen. But I guess old people like rules.
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [M~] [ In reply to ]
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I bought a condo when I first moved here after the Army. I'm with you - I don't want to ever do it again for the reasons you stated.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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No shit. I completed an online retirement calculator a couple weeks ago and nearly had a panic attack.

Those online retirement calculators are complete bullshit.
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Re: San Francisco's Dormitories for Not-Rich-Enough Professionals [M~] [ In reply to ]
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M~ wrote:
Uncle Arqyle wrote:
JSA wrote:
M~ wrote:

What I see in my little world are the young people move into Toronto (insert any large city) after University to work, party and have fun. once they meet someone and decide they want more out of life,they leave and settle down somewhere outside that city.
I don't know too many older folks nowadays that move to the big city to retire.


That was my impression, until recently. What is interesting is that this is becoming "a thing" here in Milwaukee (and elsewhere). High end apartments and condos are going up downtown, especially around the new Milwaukee Bucks arena. They are catering more to empty nesters and retirees than to young urban types. Wifie is even talking about it, now that we are empty nesters (but far from retirement).

Wifie and I went to Nashville for a Packers game a year ago. We met a newly retired couple who moved from their huge rural house to a smaller condo downtown, within walking distance of the NHL arena. They retired, moved to the city, bought season tix, and go to all the games. They have a few friends doing the same. Not sure I would want to do this, but I can see part of the appeal.


I see that here too. Our neighbours, empty nesters, and can sell their house for a cool 2 million easy (its paid off). Husband wants to move to high rise condo downtown and not worry about house chores. Same thing with a co-worker and wife who are recently empty nesters. They are thinking of selling house in the burbs and moving into a downtown condo.


Interesting. When my wife and I were between houses, we had to rent a friends condo while the house was being finished. That was the most miserable 3 months ever. TONNES of rules, too many people and the elevators drove me crazy. I guess you can get use to anything but it was a real pain in the ass. The final straw was when they told me I couldn't bring my bike into the condo and had to leave it in the parking garage in the POS bike rack. Yeah, that was going to happen. But I guess old people like rules.

I guess it depends on where you live. We rented a condo when we were between houses. I never considered bringing my bike to the condo because we had a storage unit in the garage. I don't recall any crazy rules but had access to an indoor pool, our unit was above a Westin hotel so we could order room service, go down to the bar and bring cocktails to our room and other sorts of amenities.
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