Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Teacher fires gun in GA [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
slowguy wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
This particular teacher may well not have passed a background screening test. But that doesn't mean others who do pass such a test couldn't "lose their shit" one day. People's lives change. Families break up. Any number of triggers could lead a previously "mentally fit" teacher to become "not mentally fit" and by the time he's identified as the latter, it may be too late. Indeed, he may only be identified as the latter as a result of him shooting at kids.

Teaching can be a stressful occupation, more so when kids act up. Do you really think it's a good idea to arm teachers?


No, I don't think it's a good idea to arm teachers. But I'm not going to base that opinion on the fact that random people sometimes go crazy in unexpected circumstances. That fact applies to cops, Soldiers, armed security guards, etc, etc.

My point is not about whether it's a good idea to arm teachers. My point is that this incident is not a great data point to use for an argument on either side of that debate.

I'm guessing that police officers, Soldiers, armed guards, and others like that undergo a lot of checks to ensure that they are fit for their jobs, on a (very) continuous basis. I don't think that occurs with Postal workers and teachers. I guess that's where we have to go for every teacher (should we call them Teachers now?) who is certified to carry a gun in a school. Perhaps daily morning meetings? I'm sure the Teachers have time for that, and the schools have the requisite resources.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
Quote Reply
Re: Teacher fires gun in GA [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DJRed wrote:
ajthomas wrote:
axlsix3 wrote:
Well he was a good guy until he was a bad guy.


this is the point that DJRed, RangerGress, and those people in the PA church who call the AR a rod of iron will never understand.

Of course, it wasn't an AR.

Of course, nobody was shot.

Those facts aside, I will reiterate, I don't want to arm teachers.

If anyone, at any time can just "snap", then the only way to solve this is to have no guns. No future guns. No past guns. Since that's not going to happen, I would rather an armed professional (not a teacher) be in any school my daughter is in. I think that's a pretty easy position to defend.

Aren't you one of those always talking about liberals making decisions based on emotion? Your solution? It's not one. Wouldn't make one iota of difference. It obviously would make you feel better though.
Quote Reply
Re: Teacher fires gun in GA [klehner] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I'm guessing that police officers, Soldiers, armed guards, and others like that undergo a lot of checks to ensure that they are fit for their jobs, on a (very) continuous basis. I don't think that occurs with Postal workers and teachers. I guess that's where we have to go for every teacher (should we call them Teachers now?) who is certified to carry a gun in a school. Perhaps daily morning meetings? I'm sure the Teachers have time for that, and the schools have the requisite resources.

I think you'd be guessing incorrectly.

When I was certified and qualified to carry a pistol, shotgun, or rifle for the Navy, all I had to do was requalify on an annual basis on a range. I wasn't ever specifically screened, and certainly not on a continuous basis, to make sure I was still ok to carry a weapon. Of course, if something odd, from a mental health perspective, came up, I might have had my certification to carry pulled.

I can't speak to police, armed guards, etc, but my impression is that they are not checked and rescreened on a continuous basis. I would guess that they requalify in the physical act of shooting periodically (annual, semi-annual), and they may have to undergo some mental health screening occasionally, probably in conjunction with other medical screening or maybe when assigned to a new more stressful job. But otherwise, the basic idea is that supervisors watch their people and if they notice a problem, they pull the person aside and make a determination about whether they need to be screened.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
Quote Reply
Re: Teacher fires gun in GA [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TimeIsUp wrote:
DJRed wrote:
ajthomas wrote:
axlsix3 wrote:
Well he was a good guy until he was a bad guy.


this is the point that DJRed, RangerGress, and those people in the PA church who call the AR a rod of iron will never understand.


Of course, it wasn't an AR.

Of course, nobody was shot.

Those facts aside, I will reiterate, I don't want to arm teachers.

If anyone, at any time can just "snap", then the only way to solve this is to have no guns. No future guns. No past guns. Since that's not going to happen, I would rather an armed professional (not a teacher) be in any school my daughter is in. I think that's a pretty easy position to defend.


Aren't you one of those always talking about liberals making decisions based on emotion? Your solution? It's not one. Wouldn't make one iota of difference. It obviously would make you feel better though.

I'm not always talking about libs making decisions on emotion.

My "solution" above was just one aspect of how I would deal with this. There are also other things I can get behind. It's going to take more than just one thing.

That said, given the choice when facing an active shooter, I'd rather have someone there who can shoot back (with that someone being a pro). It's really not that hard to understand.
Quote Reply
Re: Teacher fires gun in GA [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
slowguy wrote:
mv2005 wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
DJRed wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
yeah, whatever. background checks aren't much help when the armed teacher goes postal for the first time.

this is simply one example of why the solution is not more guns.


I understand. The point here is this could have been anyone who went postal. Conflating it with the teacher-arming debate is below you. Unfortunately, you have company with many others doing this as well.


Sorry, I don't follow your logic. He's a teacher. He had a gun. In a school. He had a 'mental' issue and fired his gun in the school. Around kids. How is that not relevant to the debate about whether or not we should allow teachers to be armed?


Because this teacher does not, in any way, represent the type of teacher who would be considered for any program allowing teachers to be armed.

This is not a teacher who has been screened and approved to carry a weapon in school. This is a teacher who, if screened, would likely not have passed screening, who had his weapon in the class illegally, and who had previously interacted with police on two occasions related to mental health issues.

You can't take a person who would never be selected for any armed teacher program, and hold them up as an example for whether or not an armed teacher program would work.


People are good and people are mentally stable... until they’re not. I think teachers get their boundaries pushed more than most professions. It’s quite feasible to snap for the first time in a classroom.

Where are these guns meant to be stored? To be effective would they not have to be fairly readily available? If that is the case what preventative measures could stop a determined, loose cannon student forcing a teacher to hand it over? If a student plans to go out swinging then getting that gun at any cost will be on their mind.


Of course a teacher could go crazy for the first time in the classroom with no prior indications. So could a cop or a Soldier. You really implement a solution from a position based on the vague possibility that somehow any person might could maybe go crazy for no reason completely out of the blue.

That said, I'm not defending the idea of arming teachers. I said in other threads I don't think it's a great idea. I just don't think this incident says much (for or against) about the idea.
If on the other hand they are locked up how effective will the strategy even be? They aren’t hardened ex military.

It appears he was not for quite a while.

https://www.nbcnews.com/...he-had-woman-n852271

The Georgia teacher arrested for barricading himself in a classroom and firing a gun reported an unfounded claim to police in 2016 that he was involved in a woman's death.
Jesse Randall Davidson, 53, told Dalton police that he had an affair with a woman online who refused to end contact with him, and two of his friends offered to "take care of her," according to a 2016 officer incident report.
The teacher also had an incident near campus grounds in 2017. Davidson called his son and mother to pick him up from the school building, claiming he didn't feel well. School staff began looking for him throughout the school, but found him almost a mile away sitting on a curb. Davidson was conscious but non-responsive to Dalton staff, and was transported to the hospital via EMS, according to an incident report.
On Wednesday, Davidson barricaded himself in an empty classroom as confused students tried to enter the room, police said. Davidson surrendered about 45 minutes later. A bullet had gone through an exterior window of the room, but it didn't appear Davidson was aiming at any person, police spokesman Bruce Frazier said.
Davidson was charged with aggravated assault, carrying weapon on school grounds, terroristic threats, reckless conduct, possession of gun during commission of a crime, and disrupting public school.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Quote Reply
Re: Teacher fires gun in GA [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JSA wrote:
Well, he used a snub-nosed .38 revolver, so we definitely need to ban "assault rifles."

Also, I don't understand how this could have happened in a gun-free zone.

Well, the same way that mass shootings happened in Texas and Louisiana. See, those states have people packing all over the place and I have been informed that mass shootings never happen where people have guns.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Quote Reply
Re: Teacher fires gun in GA [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BLeP wrote:
JSA wrote:
Well, he used a snub-nosed .38 revolver, so we definitely need to ban "assault rifles."

Also, I don't understand how this could have happened in a gun-free zone.


Well, the same way that mass shootings happened in Texas and Louisiana. See, those states have people packing all over the place and I have been informed that mass shootings never happen where people have guns.

I would love to see a single quote making that assertion. Please post it. I'll wait ...

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: Teacher fires gun in GA [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's been said countless times on here. You know how to search.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Quote Reply
Re: Teacher fires gun in GA [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BLeP wrote:
It's been said countless times on here. You know how to search.

That has never been said in the LR and you know it. Find me a single quote. We both know that statement does not exist.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: Teacher fires gun in GA [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I agree about your data point position. I think deep down everybody does. But it’s the LR way to link to these stories and go ‘see!’

Sure cops and soldiers can, and have, gone rogue. They are in even more stressful roles. I suppose they are expected to carry and quite feasibly have to draw (and less likely) fire their weapon.

It’s sad to think that only in the USA does the notion that teachers may also need to draw a firearm seem feasible. I would argue that this is yet another negative consequence to 2A

It appears that due to the culture being that firmly entrenched that many (not you) fail to see or at least openly acknowledge these drawbacks.
Quote Reply
Re: Teacher fires gun in GA [mv2005] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mv2005 wrote:
It’s sad to think that only in the USA does the notion that teachers may also need to draw a firearm seem feasible. I would argue that this is yet another negative consequence to 2A

It appears that due to the culture being that firmly entrenched that many (not you) fail to see or at least openly acknowledge these drawbacks.

I agree there are a lot of people who refuse to acknowledge the (significant) consequences of the 2A. But, I don't see that in the LR. I think most, if not all, people here acknowledge the issues. But, as you point out, there is a firmly entrenched culture in the US that is not easily changed.

I do not believe anyone could argue against the notion that if all guns in the US were to disappear tomorrow, gun deaths would drop to zero. But, with 310M firearms in the US, that ain't gonna happen.

In 1996, when the Aussie gun laws went into effect, you had about 18.3M people that turned in about 1M firearms. We have 323.1M people and 310M firearms.

Australia "permitted" its citizens to own firearms. The US Constitution forbids the government from infringement on the RIGHT to bear arms. Completely different legal standard.

The US, as a whole, is a violent society. There has been an apparent decline in the sanctity of human life. There is an increase in cultural decay. There is a dramatic increase in mental instability. We have so many issues to address, the proposed band aid of banning assault rifles is just laughable.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: Teacher fires gun in GA [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JSA wrote:
mv2005 wrote:
It’s sad to think that only in the USA does the notion that teachers may also need to draw a firearm seem feasible. I would argue that this is yet another negative consequence to 2A

It appears that due to the culture being that firmly entrenched that many (not you) fail to see or at least openly acknowledge these drawbacks.

I agree there are a lot of people who refuse to acknowledge the (significant) consequences of the 2A. But, I don't see that in the LR. I think most, if not all, people here acknowledge the issues. But, as you point out, there is a firmly entrenched culture in the US that is not easily changed.

I do not believe anyone could argue against the notion that if all guns in the US were to disappear tomorrow, gun deaths would drop to zero. But, with 310M firearms in the US, that ain't gonna happen.

In 1996, when the Aussie gun laws went into effect, you had about 18.3M people that turned in about 1M firearms. We have 323.1M people and 310M firearms.

Australia "permitted" its citizens to own firearms. The US Constitution forbids the government from infringement on the RIGHT to bear arms. Completely different legal standard.

The US, as a whole, is a violent society. There has been an apparent decline in the sanctity of human life. There is an increase in cultural decay. There is a dramatic increase in mental instability. We have so many issues to address, the proposed band aid of banning assault rifles is just laughable.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Obviously I disagree with the banning bit being ‘laughable’. Difficult? Yes. Political suicide? Perhaps. Unless all major parties agreed to implement similar policies pre-election. It certainly is not impossible by definition.

Tend to agree that the environment is more (or perceived to be more) violent. Not sure why. Entertainment industry perhaps.
Quote Reply
Re: Teacher fires gun in GA [mv2005] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I’m not sure why either, but it certainly is disheartening.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply

Prev Next