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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure if it was Israel trying to play CYA a little too much and being overly obtuse in the process, but it seemed like Tapper knew more about the shooter's history with Israel's department than Israel did. The words "that wasn't my job" (paraphrasing) relating to reviewing tape of his deputies not entering the school was also a major WTF. Just boggles the mind.
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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How is he wrong? Did he not suspend the guy immediately, without pay, as soon as it was clear what had happened? I'm not sure why people think he bears personal responsibility for someone else's failing to respond as they've been trained, absent evidence that misconduct was tolerated under his leadership. If there's any indication whatsoever of that, fine, but otherwise, seems to me we're imposing an impossible standard.

The guy froze when bullets started flying. There was no way to predict that response. It's now known that won't be tolerated. What else do you want?

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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WelshinPhilly wrote:
Not sure if it was Israel trying to play CYA a little too much and being overly obtuse in the process, but it seemed like Tapper knew more about the shooter's history with Israel's department than Israel did. The words "that wasn't my job" (paraphrasing) relating to reviewing tape of his deputies not entering the school was also a major WTF. Just boggles the mind.

Israel's lack of self-awareness about his leadership failings is a bit concerning. I'm not sure if he's trying to cover up his department's missteps (and mistaken policies, such as tossing the zero tolerance program for getting criminal students out of schools -- critics called it the "school-to-prison program") or if he's really unaware how badly the BSO is coming off right now.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
How is he wrong? Did he not suspend the guy immediately, without pay, as soon as it was clear what had happened? I'm not sure why people think he bears personal responsibility for someone else's failing to respond as they've been trained, absent evidence that misconduct was tolerated under his leadership. If there's any indication whatsoever of that, fine, but otherwise, seems to me we're imposing an impossible standard.

The guy froze when bullets started flying. There was no way to predict that response. It's now known that won't be tolerated. What else do you want?

I want the sheriff to accept the personal responsibility that comes with command, which is laden with authority as well. This is probably the proper time for him to fall on his own sword, so to speak, I would say. But I'm willing to wait until a non-partisan independent investigatory agency releases its findings on the tragedy and the BSO's role in it. I wouldn't necessarily trust any sort of internal investigation conducted by the BSO, however, I have to say.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Damn, how about this.




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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
How is he wrong? Did he not suspend the guy immediately, without pay, as soon as it was clear what had happened? I'm not sure why people think he bears personal responsibility for someone else's failing to respond as they've been trained, absent evidence that misconduct was tolerated under his leadership. If there's any indication whatsoever of that, fine, but otherwise, seems to me we're imposing an impossible standard.

The guy froze when bullets started flying. There was no way to predict that response. It's now known that won't be tolerated. What else do you want?

I haven't heard anyone say he bears "personal responsibility", whatever that looks like in this case. As the supposed "leader" of the Sherriff's Department, however, he certainly does bear professional responsibility for his team's failures.
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]
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Damn, still not working. I think its a conspiracy..


Last edited by: bluemonkeytri: Feb 26, 18 6:58
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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WelshinPhilly wrote:
sphere wrote:
How is he wrong? Did he not suspend the guy immediately, without pay, as soon as it was clear what had happened? I'm not sure why people think he bears personal responsibility for someone else's failing to respond as they've been trained, absent evidence that misconduct was tolerated under his leadership. If there's any indication whatsoever of that, fine, but otherwise, seems to me we're imposing an impossible standard.

The guy froze when bullets started flying. There was no way to predict that response. It's now known that won't be tolerated. What else do you want?


I haven't heard anyone say he bears "personal responsibility", whatever that looks like in this case. As the supposed "leader" of the Sherriff's Department, however, he certainly does bear professional responsibility for his team's failures.

I can live with that. "Professional responsibility." That's a common concept familiar to most people who've ever exercised leadership in an organization. Accountability starts at the top, after all.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]
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bluemonkeytri wrote:
Damn, still not working. I think its a conspiracy..


Ooh, I love conspiracies!! ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Finally. Slowtwitch must not like pro wrestling..
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]
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bluemonkeytri wrote:
Damn, still not working. I think its a conspiracy..


Hahahahahaha! The original Jake The Snake! What was the name of his python? I can't remember. :-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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WelshinPhilly wrote:
sphere wrote:
How is he wrong? Did he not suspend the guy immediately, without pay, as soon as it was clear what had happened? I'm not sure why people think he bears personal responsibility for someone else's failing to respond as they've been trained, absent evidence that misconduct was tolerated under his leadership. If there's any indication whatsoever of that, fine, but otherwise, seems to me we're imposing an impossible standard.

The guy froze when bullets started flying. There was no way to predict that response. It's now known that won't be tolerated. What else do you want?


I haven't heard anyone say he bears "personal responsibility", whatever that looks like in this case. As the supposed "leader" of the Sherriff's Department, however, he certainly does bear professional responsibility for his team's failures.

By rule 74.2.9, Section A, it seems like any responsibility for this jumps the Sheriff/FBI and goes to the Governor/President.

https://www.mediaite.com/...nt-confront-shooter/
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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DJRed wrote:
WelshinPhilly wrote:
sphere wrote:
How is he wrong? Did he not suspend the guy immediately, without pay, as soon as it was clear what had happened? I'm not sure why people think he bears personal responsibility for someone else's failing to respond as they've been trained, absent evidence that misconduct was tolerated under his leadership. If there's any indication whatsoever of that, fine, but otherwise, seems to me we're imposing an impossible standard.

The guy froze when bullets started flying. There was no way to predict that response. It's now known that won't be tolerated. What else do you want?


I haven't heard anyone say he bears "personal responsibility", whatever that looks like in this case. As the supposed "leader" of the Sherriff's Department, however, he certainly does bear professional responsibility for his team's failures.


By rule 74.2.9, Section A, it seems like any responsibility for this jumps the Sheriff/FBI and goes to the Governor/President.

https://www.mediaite.com/...nt-confront-shooter/

That kid's starting to wear a little thin. And he's the best argument we have for why we don't let teenagers set policy on anything. Lawmaking by teenage emotional bullying? Uh, ummmm... don't think so.

One thing Scott can do, though, from what I've read: He apparently has the authority to remove a sheriff from office under certain circumstances -- something the red-faced Florida speaker of the house is also asserting. Would that be a wise political move for Scott, given the number of voters down in Broward County who obviously wanted Israel in office during his 2016 reelection run? That'd be another big "NO."

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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I'm also getting tired of hearing a myriad of Florida officials speaking with a G-damn Noo Yawk accent, as well.

Carry on! ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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Semantics. Everything I described points to him taking responsibility for what happened with the resource officer, in terms of swift analysis and response. He may be culpable for the systemic failures that led up to this tragedy, but we're talking about this component, specifically.

What would you suggest he had done differently in that situation?

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
Semantics. Everything I described points to him taking responsibility for what happened with the resource officer, in terms of swift analysis and response. He may be culpable for the systemic failures that led up to this tragedy, but we're talking about this component, specifically.

What would you suggest he had done differently in that situation?


I was sympathetic back when the truth was the hesitation of only the school safety officer, but it seems now that there were also 3 deputies paralyzed outside the school. Then, as I understand it, the towny police show up and bully the deputies into entering the school with them. That's 4 county LEO's. That's certainly enough to draw courage from each other and to watch each other's backs. Hard to be sympathetic towards their failure.

The fact that 4 country types were paralyzed yet the towny police were determined to charge in per the standard doctrine adopted after Columbine(?), is an indicator that something is wrong with the county sheriff's dept. Maybe they're so micromanaged that they aren't allowed to improvise. Maybe the dept wallows in apathy.

As the deputies were racing to the school, there should have been leadership types on the radio reminding them of the "charge in there" doctrine. The leadership type should have said "when you get there, if you think this is an active situation or that there might be wounded, charge in there as a group, watch each other's backs, and help those kids".

Sure, lower tier folks are going to make mistakes. But the leadership creates the culture, and it's up to the leadership to do everything they can to help the lower tier folks succeed.

Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
Last edited by: RangerGress: Feb 26, 18 8:01
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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RangerGress wrote:
sphere wrote:
Semantics. Everything I described points to him taking responsibility for what happened with the resource officer, in terms of swift analysis and response. He may be culpable for the systemic failures that led up to this tragedy, but we're talking about this component, specifically.

What would you suggest he had done differently in that situation?


I was sympathetic back when the truth was the hesitation of only the school safety officer, but it seems now that there were also 3 deputies paralyzed outside the school. Then, as I understand it, the towny police show up and bully the deputies into entering the school with them. That's 4 county LEO's. That's certainly enough to draw courage from each other and to watch each other's backs. Hard to be sympathetic towards their failure.

The fact that 4 country types were paralyzed yet the towny police were determined to charge in per the standard doctrine adopted after Columbine(?), is an indicator that something is wrong with the county sheriff's dept. Maybe they're so micromanaged that they aren't allowed to improvise. Maybe the dept wallows in apathy.

As the deputies were racing to the school, there should have been leadership types on the radio reminding them of the "charge in there" doctrine. The leadership type should have said "when you get there, if you think this is an active situation or that there might be wounded, charge in there as a group, watch each other's backs, and help those kids".

Sure, lower tier folks are going to make mistakes. But the leadership creates the culture, and it's up to the leadership to do everything they can to help the lower tier folks succeed.

National Review -- about as sympathetic to law enforcement as you can find anywhere -- has waded in and is calling for Israel to resign. They make a cogent argument for why he should do so, too.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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http://www.miamiherald.com/...rticle202164039.html

Broward Sheriff’s Deputy Peterson is saying his actions were justified.

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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Leddy wrote:
http://www.miamiherald.com/...rticle202164039.html

Broward Sheriff’s Deputy Peterson is saying his actions were justified.

How convenient for him. And how convenient that he decided to retire right after the shooting, and will probably draw about $50,000 yearly from a pension.

What a sh*tshow down there. Yeesh.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
Semantics. Everything I described points to him taking responsibility for what happened with the resource officer, in terms of swift analysis and response. He may be culpable for the systemic failures that led up to this tragedy, but we're talking about this component, specifically.

What would you suggest he had done differently in that situation?

Specific to that component? Maybe taking responsibility beyond his "I gave him a gun and a badge, not my problem beyond that. Sorry." dismissal of culpability. You know, "leadership" stuff, that he was getting paid for. Maybe an admission that maybe the department's training wasn't rigorous enough if FOUR of his deputies hung out outside the school, instead of making a ridiculous claim that he's done "an amazing job".

This guy comes across like a fucking shady used car salesman or Scaramucci's half-brother or something, as opposed to a civic leader, but I'm pretty sure he was happy to strut his four stars around Broward like his shit didn't stink (and still appears to be happy to be doing so, for that matter).
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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FBI dropped the ball but BCS has blood on its hands. Israel should be fired and everyone who didn't follow up or fire reports should be demoted. The deputies who didn't go into the school should be fired and loose their pensions.
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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Specific to that component? Maybe taking responsibility beyond his "I gave him a gun and a badge, not my problem beyond that. Sorry." dismissal of culpability. You know, "leadership" stuff, that he was getting paid for. Maybe an admission that maybe the department's training wasn't rigorous enough if FOUR of his deputies hung out outside the school, instead of making a ridiculous claim that he's done "an amazing job".

I'm not defending him, as a leader of that department. I'm addressing the claims and his responses. I've only seen him speak in that Tapper interview, but I believe he said that the investigation into the other officers' operations at the scene are still ongoing. If so, it's appropriate for him to say so, and little more on that point.

He never said it wasn't his problem beyond handing him a gun and a badge, IIRC. He said he can't control how the officer responded when an immediate life and death situation developed on his watch. And that's true. What he can control is how he responds to that officer when the truth is revealed about his inaction, and what he did is exactly what a leader should have done once it became clear. Am I wrong about that?

I suspect we'll learn there's more reason to replace him as the story develops, if we haven't already. But that's not among them.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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This shit weasel wants "more power" in order to do more than write reports and they didn't even write a report when they were told the kid was a school shooter in the making! BCS didn't do anything before or during the shooting and they're not doing anything now but blaming other people and making claims of "amazing leadership."
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Re: Jake "The Snake" Tapper Brutalizes Broward County Sheriff in CNN Interview [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Alvin Tostig wrote:
Sort of off topic, but what's up with the Sheriff's four stars on the collar of his shirt? Is he sort of a 4-star general/admiral?

It's a signal of authority. Cops love signals of their authority. Mustaches. Mirrored aviators. Stars.

War is god
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