Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
big kahuna wrote:
drn92 wrote:
Respectfully, articles like that do not make me think that arming teachers is the way to go. It makes me think that if people (multiple agencies that are responsible for this kind of stuff) would have done their jobs initially then the likelihood of this specific tragedy occurring would have been lower. Additionally, if it would have been more difficult for the shooter to get a weapon like the AR-15, the chance of this happening could have been lower.

Active shooter situations are challenging enough. If you add in additional guns in the hands of people not trained in that type of situation you just magnify the potential outcomes (good and bad, but mostly bad in my opinion). LEO’s do not spend enough time training for those scenarios ... what makes you think teachers will be prepared to act? I want my teachers and money spent by the school to focus on education. Let the law enforcement community focus on law enforcement.

It is interesting to watch this unfold. We get calls of “it is too early to overreact and let emotion guide new gun laws to restrict access” but at the same time people want to immediately act and let emotion make it ok to arm teachers. Pretty soon it will look like an old western movie with everyone walking around packing.

drn92


I'm not in favor of arming teachers. If I gave that impression, I apologize.

Edited to add: What I'm extremely upset about are the failures at the federal, state and county government and law enforcement levels that directly led to this completely preventable tragedy, and by that I mean the failure to do something about this ticking time bomb of a future school shooter. Who even introduced himself to some people like this: "Hi, I'm XXXX, and I'm going to be a school shooter." Or who, on at least one occasion, was known to have put a gun to the head of a woman -- who may have been a relative or a close acquaintance -- and about which the country sheriff's department did nothing, from the looks of things.

Those are the kinds of things that have me irritated about this entire situation.

100% agree.

drn92
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BLeP wrote:
JSA wrote:
BLeP wrote:
More twitter teacher greatness:

“As a teacher, I knocked myself out headbutting ceiling pretending to be a particle, star-jumping off a desk.

I've set my arm on fire when lit ethanol trickled down sleeve, from my hand.

I've burnt my ear listening if gas was coming out of a bunsen.

Please don't give me a gun.“


Yeah, I guess it is pretty clear no teachers want to learn about handling firearms.


An Ohio Sheriff is offering free gun training to teachers in response to the school shooting in Parkland, Florida, that left 17 dead.
Butler County Sheriff Richard Jones told FOX Business’ Liz MacDonald that the response from teachers and school administrators has been overwhelming.
“We thought we’d get 20, 25 signed up. We had 50 within the first hour. We had 100 within two hours, we had three hundred within like five hours. We offered to teachers first, then we start getting calls from a secretary that works in the school, janitors that work in the school,” Jones said.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/...gun-training-in-ohio


When did I say no teachers want guns?

Try to stick with what I actually said, ok Trump?

Well, if you said what you actually mean, rather than constantly posting with little to no actual substance and only quaint little snippets, it would be easier to do. But, that is not your posting style, so I am forced to work with what I got.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I posted two quotes that I found amusing from teachers.

You know what I think. Teachers with guns is a terrible idea. Yeah some might want them. It’s no less a terrible idea.

Let’s say a shooter is in a hallway shooting at students. Student are running everywhere. A teacher comes out into the hall. Do you want him firing? He’s more likely to hit a student than the shooter.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So you think that no resistance to an armed shooter walking the halls at will is preferred?
Last edited by: rick_pcfl: Feb 24, 18 9:23
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Let’s say a shooter is in a hallway shooting at students. Student are running everywhere. A teacher comes out into the hall. Do you want him firing? He’s more likely to hit a student than the shooter. //

Actually what is more likely is when that teacher is running around with a gun drawn and maybe shooting, is that they are going to be shot shortly by the swat responders. What do you thing the swat team is going to do when they look around that corner and see someone with a gun drawn?? Remember when they respond to these situations they basically have no information other than an active shooting is going on. They dont know if there are multiple shooters, how old, or really any hard details other than maybe gender. If they see a gun in someone's hands pointed they are going to most likely shoot and ask questions later. Just how these things go.



Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rick_pcfl wrote:
So you think that no resistance to an armed shooter walking the halls at will is preferred?

So you want the teacher shooting at the shooter even if there are students running around. Ok then.

Good choice.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
Let’s say a shooter is in a hallway shooting at students. Student are running everywhere. A teacher comes out into the hall. Do you want him firing? He’s more likely to hit a student than the shooter. //

Actually what is more likely is when that teacher is running around with a gun drawn and maybe shooting, is that they are going to be shot shortly by the swat responders. What do you thing the swat team is going to do when they look around that corner and see someone with a gun drawn?? Remember when they respond to these situations they basically have no information other than an active shooting is going on. They dont know if there are multiple shooters, how old, or really any hard details other than maybe gender. If they see a gun in someone's hands pointed they are going to most likely shoot and ask questions later. Just how these things go.



If we start arming teachers in schools, innocent people are going to get shot, probably by being caught in the crossfire. Unless these teachers are willing to undergo concerted shooter house or kill house training, and to learn to work like a team through immediate action drills, I think more harm than good is going to ensue.

Personally, I think it's crazy that we are at the point where arming teachers is somehow being looked at as a tactically sound decision, let alone what it says about us as a society and what we think of teachers.

In my particular area of security work, we always say that security costs. So how secure do you want to be? If we mean to secure these schools and similar facilities, it's going to cost us.

Arming teachers, seems like a really chintzy way of trying to gain some security. Besides being crazy in the first place, that is.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BLeP wrote:
Let’s say a shooter is in a hallway shooting at students. Student are running everywhere. A teacher comes out into the hall. Do you want him firing? He’s more likely to hit a student than the shooter.

Aaron Feis is the Florida assistant football coach, school counselor, and (unarmed) security guard who used his body as a human shield to take the rounds meant for his students. I think he should have the option to return fire, rather than merely take it.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So how many student casualties at his hands would you be ok with if he shot the shooter?

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BLeP wrote:
So how many student casualties at his hands would you be ok with if he shot the shooter?

Be "ok with?" None. Ever.

What a fucking asinine question. Wow.

Using your logic, you are "ok" with him losing his life as a human shield.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Aaron Feis is the Florida assistant football coach, school counselor, and (unarmed) security guard who used his body as a human shield to take the rounds meant for his students. I think he should have the option to return fire, rather than merely take it.

One of the problems with these kind of debates is the drawing on relatively isolated incidences to make a general point. In this particular case, Aaron Feis would have been better off with a gun. However, if also may have shot more children while attempting to shoot the gunman, or may have been shot by the police, or may have missed the gunman and he ran to another part of the building, or...

I think in general, arming teachers is one of the dumbest solutions to a problem I've ever heard and is only slightly above arming all the children as a solution.

Last edited by: Sanuk: Feb 24, 18 14:05
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am just saying that is inevitable. And you think the hue and cry about guns is loud now? Wait until a teacher shoots a student.

Or if a teacher shoots a student by accident. Holy shit.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sanuk wrote:
Aaron Feis is the Florida assistant football coach, school counselor, and (unarmed) security guard who used his body as a human shield to take the rounds meant for his students. I think he should have the option to return fire, rather than merely take it.

One of the problems with these kind of debates is the drawing on relatively isolated incidences to make a general point. In this particular case, Aaron Feis would have been better off with a gun. However, if also may have shot more children while attempting to shoot the gunman, or may have been shot by the police, or may have missed the gunman and he ran to another part of the building, or...

I think in general, arming teachers is one of the dumbest solutions to a problem I've ever heard and is only slightly above arming all the children as a solution.

We can speculate all we want, but one thing is absolutely, positively, unequivocally clear - he was left defenseless and died as a result of his incredible selfless act.

Not sure how many more times I have to say this in this thread - I do not favor affirmatively arming teachers, but, this (unarmed) security guard perhaps should have been given the choice.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BLeP wrote:
I am just saying that is inevitable.


No, it isn't, and you have proffered no support for that position. None. The only thing that is inevitable is that a defenseless hero engaged in an the ultimate selfless act using his body as a shield is going to die without standing a chance.

A sheep dog will always put himself in harm's way defending those under his/her care. I do not think it is unreasonable to afford a sheep dog the ability to defend himself/herself.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Last edited by: JSA: Feb 24, 18 15:31
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BLeP wrote:
rick_pcfl wrote:
So you think that no resistance to an armed shooter walking the halls at will is preferred?


So you want the teacher shooting at the shooter even if there are students running around. Ok then.

Good choice.

I think JSA addressed some of the issues. I believe you are assuming worse case scenarios. First, I acknowledge that an undisciplined shooter/teacher could shoot innocent children. But there are some scenarios where if a shooter walks into the room and starts shooting the teacher could possibly take him out without hitting any other students. I'm pretty sure that there have been some shootings (sadly) where a teacher may have been able to save some lives if they had been able to return fire.

I do agree that it is horribly sad that we even need to have this conversation.
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
A little black humor here from Dr. Jesse Kelly:

"911, what's your emergency?"


"There's someone breaking into my house. Could you send the Broward County Sheriff's Department to water my garden while I kill the intruder?"

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
One of the problems with these kind of debates is the drawing on relatively isolated incidences to make a general point.

You mean like gun control or banning AR-15s?
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [efernand] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
efernand wrote:
Quote:
One of the problems with these kind of debates is the drawing on relatively isolated incidences to make a general point.


You mean like gun control or banning AR-15s?

You just proved his point for him, sir. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: Florida Senate Committee Considers Taking Up Bill to Arm Teachers [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Mass shootings and mental illness. It seems there's probably a clear link between them, after all, if this op-ed in the LA Times is any indication (and the Florida school shooter was clearly mentally disturbed... with no one in authority appears to have been willing to do anything about it, for a variety of political and societal reasons):

""Repeat after me: Mass shooters are not disproportionately mentally ill."

This is the opening line of a meme that's been circulating in the aftermath of the shooting in Parkland, Fla.

But this and other efforts to downplay the role of mental illness in mass shootings are simply misleading. There is a clear relationship between mental illness and mass public shootings.


At the broadest level, peer-reviewed research has shown that individuals with major mental disorders (those that substantially interfere with life activities) are more likely to commit violent acts, especially if they abuse drugs. When we focus more narrowly on mass public shootings — an extreme and, fortunately, rare form of violence — we see a relatively high rate of mental illness."


According to our research, at least 59% of the 185 public mass shootings that took place in the United States from 1900 through 2017 were carried out by people who had either been diagnosed with a mental disorder or demonstrated signs of serious mental illness prior to the attack. (We define a mass public shooting as any incident in which four or more victims are killed with a gun within a 24-hour period at a public location in the absence of military conflict, collective violence or other criminal activity, such as robberies, drug deals or gang turf wars.)"

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply

Prev Next